I got 24 in methods but i want to do Commerce - advice please

[Nick]

As most of you are probably already aware, Costa (costargh) has issues regarding his failure to gain an adequate study score in Mathematical Methods (CAS), in order to satisfy the prerequisite for Commerce at either the University of Melbourne or Monash University.

I'm posting on his behalf he doesn’t want to "directly" persist with gauging FSN thoughts, even though it's constantly "on his mind".

So the situation is:

Prerequisite for Commerce at both the universities is 25 in Methods (any)
He achieved a raw score of 24 in Methods, missing out on the requirement by ONE point.

He has been given the option to repeat this subject in order to meet the requirement, but as you can imagine, such a pursuit would be both repetitive, painful and there is a chance that repeating the subject could adversely impact on his other studies.

Can anyone offer a solution as to how he can get around this issue? Can he somehow try and gain special consideration from the university due to attending an under represented school? Would it be wise to approach the universities directly and find out if he can demonstrate his mathematical ability through another source, such as the GAT?  It seems cruel that one should have to repeat an entire 3/4 sequence for the sake of one point.

[Eriny]

Maybe it would be a good idea to call the uni's you're interested in (Costa) and see what they have to say. You may want to bring up the maths score you got on the GAT if it's a good one. Ordinarily I'm in the anti-repeating group, but when it comes to prerequisites, it's what you gotta do.

People doing commerce - does an ordinary degree (i.e. not a major in acturial studies) actually require much maths? If it does, then maybe it's not the right degree to be picking if you loathe maths (just something to consider). If not, and the prerequisite is just an arbitrary figure, I reckon you should suck it up and repeat, as unfair as it seems.

[costargh]

Thanks Eriny.
I got 36 for the Mathematics/Technology section of the GAT. And keep in mind that I have been doing accelerated maths since I was in Year 7. (And actually in year 5 I was in a streamed class of Year 5 and 6 students who needed challenges). So I don't intend to seem up myself or anything like that but I guess you could say I am "naturally" maths minded but once I got into year 11 and 12 it all went downhill.

I don't really know the sort of maths associated with Commerce degrees but I am very sure the majority of it would have nothing to do with circular functions and all that other kinda mathy stuff.

My best area was probability. Still it is my own fault for doing so shit but yeh my point is that I know commerce is the degree for me because it quenches all my interests and with that in mind I don't see how most of the methods course would fit in with maths associated in commerce. =( lol

[mozart]

lol why did it go so bad for you in year 11 and 12?
what happened?

[costargh]

lol why did it go so bad for you in year 11 and 12?
what happened?

I don't know to be honest. Things just seemed harder. Maybe its just the way my brain works in terms of logic rather than repetition of formulas. Add that to lack of maths teacher mentors and personal unmotivation and you get the picture.

[AppleXY]

lol. Math is commerce (really, it's dealing with money, numbers, problems :p)

Although it may seem 'ridiculous'  that methods is a pre-requisite (25), i'm surprised that it's not higher [sorry costargh ]. The major studies in commerce are (excluding actuarial lol): Accounting, Finance,  Economics, Marketing,  and Management. I'm telling you now that every single major study has math, just not as hard as others.

The ranking will go according to this (of course, excluding actuarial lol)

1.  Finance
2.  Economics
3.  Accounting
4.  Marketing
5.  Management

In detail, I can tell specific calculations you may need to be equipped with for the above.

1. finance - Knowledge of various models (black-scholes), able to read and correctly interpret graphs, able to solve financial mathematics problems (SCIENTIFIC calculators ONLY allowed, no graphics)

2. economics -  Econometrics. Derivation of graphs, elasticity, curves and many more.

3. accounting - NPV (net present value), time value of money, forensic accounting methods

4. marketing - Statistics, data mining and others (but i vaguely know about marketing)

5. management -  Productivity calculations. (verrry simple though, simple x/y, management is piss easy lol)

So there is reasons why unis across the world require math. Trust me, you must repeat it, just think about, it's just another 10 months of real trouble, heartache and aguish and then you can relax. It's certainly worth it

3. and 4 are interchangable actually lol.

[mozart]

yes but the statistics are against him, as VCAA states.
people who repeat the subject loose all motivation and usually get the same marks as they did before.

sorry cosargh if this is abit harsh but yes that's how it is.
do something that will get you a good ENTER

[costargh]

Thanks Apple.

But see thats the thing, all the areas you have mentioned above are my strenths but are not so strictly tested in the methods course as areas that I had trouble with.
For me to be an A/A+ student in Eco and Acc surely that says that I can cope with the maths involved at VCE level in those areas of study which is what I wish to pursue.

But yeh I guess its looking like going down that path. Yay for repeating next year ... not

[costargh]

yes but the statistics are against him, as VCAA states.
people who repeat the subject loose all motivation and usually get the same marks as they did before.

sorry cosargh if this is abit harsh but yes that's how it is.
do something that will get you a good ENTER

Where are the statistics?
If you are referring to VCAA's hypothetical situation about students choosing subjects that interest them then I must inform you that that is not a statistic and also leaves out an important point, that that situation does not make a reference or attempt to see how a student would go if he repeated the subject.

There is no point getting a higher ENTER if I do not meet the requiremnts of the course (25 in methods)
I could get 99.55 and miss out on a place because I failed to achieve a 25 in the pre-req of methods.

[bilgia]

repeat that shit. im sure u can get over 25 this time round
..honestly speaking u cant do much worse anyways

[RD]

Thanks Eriny.
 I got into year 11 and 12 it all went downhill.

I know the feeling, same happened to me also

[droodles]

COSTARGH U GOTTA GRAB VCE BY THE BALLS AND SHAKE THEM REALLY HARD UNTIL U WIN

[brendan]

I don't really know the sort of maths associated with Commerce degrees but I am very sure the majority of it would have nothing to do with circular functions and all that other kinda mathy stuff.

I do think you underestimate the level mathematics required for commerce. If you are doing economics, actuarial studies or finance you are going to need lots of mathematics - particularly probability/statistics and calculus - it is not just addition, subtraction and multiplication and division. There is a reason why specialist maths is needed for actuarial and methods is needed for Commerce, you will need them to do further mathematics subjects later on. Particularly, Economics you need a very very good grasp of mathematics:
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/09/why-aspiring-economists-need-math.html
http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2006/05/which-math-courses.html

Can he somehow try and gain special consideration from the university due to attending an under represented school?

That would have to apply for SEAS, but that is only for ENTER score not for prerequisites

Would it be wise to approach the universities directly and find out if he can demonstrate his mathematical ability through another source, such as the GAT? 

Can't hurt to try. Monash looks at the GAT in the middle-band selection.

[AppleXY]

exactly brendan. As i said, math is commerce

[nak]

well.. maths from year 7 to 10 is much different from methods. Those are more towards the further maths side, you might be one of those that are very good at further maths and not so good at methods type of maths. It's just like a person who may be very good at methods may not be able to do specialist.