VCE to be abolished in favour of NATIONAL curriculum

[Eriny]

If they're designing a new system, I'd like to see them liaise more with universities and industries as to what would be the most useful skills to develop in year 11 and 12 rather than just make up a patchwork quilt of random courses from all over the place. If that were the case, I think there would be a greater emphasis on literacy in terms of written clarity and comprehension and 'critical thinking' (i.e. fewer rote-learning subjects), just at a guess. Also, I think that SACs are a pretty flawed mode of assessment in terms of preparation for uni - assignments should be longer term and actually somewhat investigative with at least some use of research and citations (I think there was less independent research in year 12 than what there was in year 10!).

[NE2000]

I think there was less independent research in year 12 than what there was in year 10!

Yeah that is quite interesting, Year 12 you can generally rely on your textbooks to see you through, particularly with maths-science type subjects. In the old days you would spend ages finding books in the library, relavent websites and then compiling your knowledge while citing all your sources. Not much of that happening this year.

[Fyrefly]

I think there was less independent research in year 12 than what there was in year 10!

Yeah that is quite interesting, Year 12 you can generally rely on your textbooks to see you through, particularly with maths-science type subjects. In the old days you would spend ages finding books in the library, relavent websites and then compiling your knowledge while citing all your sources. Not much of that happening this year.

Actually... now that you mention it, I was very much the same!
There isn't much research in the curriculum, is there..?

[costargh]

I think the independent research undertaken by students in bachelor degrees is ridiculously uneffective and inefficient as a form of learning. Discuss?

[xXNovaxX]

Eriny (as usual) is right, haha. When i first entered VCE (rememebring I never knew what VCE was like), I was at first surprised that we never got ASSIGNMENTS, it was always just like 7-10 SACS for every subject every few weeks.

That is OKAY i guess,, I would hate to do for example a role play, or a "movie" as some books suggest. But there should also be some assignments where u can take home and research, and it should be difficult, and able to make you explore a wide variety of resources. It DOES make you learn.

And before people say "but people can cheat".....don't forget many Uni courses have TAKE HOME EXAMS, essays etc....it isn;t just all down to what you can memorize for a test. (not a typo).

[Mao]

I think the independent research undertaken by students in bachelor degrees is ridiculously uneffective and inefficient as a form of learning. Discuss?

I disagree. Learning is best when self-driven. If the student wishes to engage deeper and broader understanding, undergraduate research is simply the most awesome experience (and I cannot wait).

[costargh]

What I meant was for 'learning' as a whole - as in, to mandate that form of learning on an entire student population.

Learning may be 'best' when self driven, but then you are assuming that people are self-driven which is almost certainly not the case for most of the student population I see. Therefore, in my opinion, the style of learning mandated on students should reflect the acknowledgment that most students at undergraduate level are not self driven.

From personal experience, and from speaking to probably over 30-40 people that undertake this form of learning for university, the majority seem as though they:

1. Are just trying to make up the minimum number of references required for the essay
2. Aren't even reading the journal articles they find - merely trying to find something to back up an argument
3. Waste hours upon hours to find very little information

... I hope I havent confused you with honours style research/ higher degree research where you would actually undertake research yourself and write something based on that research (eg. surveys, observations etc).

I think we should be given say 20 articles to read and from those be expected to write an essay. The actual research process itself is too cumbersome for my liking when you have no articles given to you.

[xXNovaxX]

something can still be seen as useless even if through FREE SPEECH they say it....
And someone can still point out (a part of free speech) that what someone says is useless.

Wait....i mgiht have the wrong end of the stick, don;t mean to sound so obnoxious 

[Mao]

What I meant was for 'learning' as a whole - as in, to mandate that form of learning on an entire student population.

Learning may be 'best' when self driven, but then you are assuming that people are self-driven which is almost certainly not the case for most of the student population I see. Therefore, in my opinion, the style of learning mandated on students should reflect the acknowledgment that most students at undergraduate level are not self driven.

From personal experience, and from speaking to probably over 30-40 people that undertake this form of learning for university, the majority seem as though they:

1. Are just trying to make up the minimum number of references required for the essay
2. Aren't even reading the journal articles they find - merely trying to find something to back up an argument
3. Waste hours upon hours to find very little information

... I hope I havent confused you with honours style research/ higher degree research where you would actually undertake research yourself and write something based on that research (eg. surveys, observations etc).

I think we should be given say 20 articles to read and from those be expected to write an essay. The actual research process itself is too cumbersome for my liking when you have no articles given to you.

oooh, THAT type of research..

I was thinking the type where I get a textbook, learn it, then solve some computational problem.

Also, Moderator Action: thread title edited to correct typo. It was annoying the hell out of me.

[Eriny]

What I meant was for 'learning' as a whole - as in, to mandate that form of learning on an entire student population.

Learning may be 'best' when self driven, but then you are assuming that people are self-driven which is almost certainly not the case for most of the student population I see. Therefore, in my opinion, the style of learning mandated on students should reflect the acknowledgment that most students at undergraduate level are not self driven.

From personal experience, and from speaking to probably over 30-40 people that undertake this form of learning for university, the majority seem as though they:

1. Are just trying to make up the minimum number of references required for the essay
2. Aren't even reading the journal articles they find - merely trying to find something to back up an argument
3. Waste hours upon hours to find very little information

... I hope I havent confused you with honours style research/ higher degree research where you would actually undertake research yourself and write something based on that research (eg. surveys, observations etc).

I think we should be given say 20 articles to read and from those be expected to write an essay. The actual research process itself is too cumbersome for my liking when you have no articles given to you.

It is crucial to learn how to find information and how to read information. In a job, there isn't going to be someone giving you 20 papers to read getting you to summarise it all, you're going to have to find them yourself. That said, in uni you are prescribed readings and given additional recommendations. But still, you describe a very inflexible way of answering an essay question. I don't know about other faculties, but that could potentially create a lot of problems for arts students. Especially if you're coming up with your own essay questions.

[TrueLight]

same with science faculty

[Glockmeister]

What I meant was for 'learning' as a whole - as in, to mandate that form of learning on an entire student population.

Learning may be 'best' when self driven, but then you are assuming that people are self-driven which is almost certainly not the case for most of the student population I see. Therefore, in my opinion, the style of learning mandated on students should reflect the acknowledgment that most students at undergraduate level are not self driven.

From personal experience, and from speaking to probably over 30-40 people that undertake this form of learning for university, the majority seem as though they:

1. Are just trying to make up the minimum number of references required for the essay
2. Aren't even reading the journal articles they find - merely trying to find something to back up an argument
3. Waste hours upon hours to find very little information

... I hope I havent confused you with honours style research/ higher degree research where you would actually undertake research yourself and write something based on that research (eg. surveys, observations etc).

I think we should be given say 20 articles to read and from those be expected to write an essay. The actual research process itself is too cumbersome for my liking when you have no articles given to you.

It is crucial to learn how to find information and how to read information. In a job, there isn't going to be someone giving you 20 papers to read getting you to summarise it all, you're going to have to find them yourself. That said, in uni you are prescribed readings and given additional recommendations. But still, you describe a very inflexible way of answering an essay question. I don't know about other faculties, but that could potentially create a lot of problems for arts students. Especially if you're coming up with your own essay questions.

Same with Psych tbh, I think the markers will get bored reading what will really become nth essay containing the same information.

Being able to research scholarly, I feel anyway, is probably the most important skill that you get out of university, moreso than the actual academic content, which is bound to become out of date (depending on how fast research happens in your field, I know personally with neuroscience, I'm can guarantee that by the time I walk out with my degree, there will be some things I learnt in first year that won't be valid any more)