Thoughts on eating meat and dairy?

[geminii]

Because lamb chops, barbecues and chicken wings exist

So your justification is that you eat meat because it tastes good?

[Muchos Help]

So your justification is that you eat meat because it tastes good?

If it didn't taste good most people wouldn't be eating it, lol.

[geminii]

If it didn't taste good most people wouldn't be eating it, lol.

Yeah, but can it really be used as a justification? 'It tastes good' is more of an excuse, not a justification.

[Syndicate]

Yeah, but can it really be used as a justification? 'It tastes good' is more of an excuse, not a justification.

Well, you can also account for the fact that many health/ fitness fanatics believe meat is a valuable source of protien (which is quite true).

[pi]

Well, you can also account for the fact that many health/ fitness fanatics believe meat is a valuable source of protien (which is quite true).

You're rationalising to someone who basically previously admitted to not believing in Western medicines and immunisations because they were tested on animals (other than humans) at some stage. Winning the battle but always losing the war.

[geminii]

Well, you can also account for the fact that many health/ fitness fanatics believe meat is a valuable source of protien (which is quite true).

"Contrary to the misinformation spewed forth by uninformed people, there is no shortage of protein in a vegan diet. All amino acids are found in the plant kingdom with alfalfa sprouts, almonds, bananas, bean sprouts, brazil nuts, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, coconuts, corn, dates, eggplant, filberts, goji berries, okra, pecans, soy, spirulina (seaweed), squash, sunflower seeds, sweet potatoes, tempeh (fermented soy), tomatoes, walnuts and wheatgrass being complete proteins. However, consuming all amino acids at one meal is unnecessary. Meat, dairy and egg-eaters receive NO benefit from eating complete animal-based proteins except having a complete chance at cancer, osteoporosis and a host of other ailments. Beans, brown rice, cacao/chocolate (genuine cacao/chocolate is a bean so it's naturally vegan), grains (all), hemp (milk/oil/powder/seed), lentils, nuts (all), seeds (all), vegetables (all), and all vegan meats/dairy are great sources of protein, too. Even fruit has around 5 percent protein, which is the same amount of protein human babies receive from mother's breast milk. For a detailed list of protein-rich foods, check out this chart from the Vegetarian Resource Group."
- http://adaptt.org/veganism.html# ('Protein and Trans Fatty Acids' Section)

• Where do you get your protein on a vegan diet? (http://bitesizevegan.com/vegan-health/where-do-you-get-your-protein-on-a-vegan-diet-dr-michael-greger-of-nutritionfacts-org/)

[geminii]

You're rationalising to someone who basically previously admitted to not believing in Western medicines and immunisations because they were tested on animals (other than humans) at some stage. Winning the battle but always losing the war.

If everyone stopped eating stuff that's bad for your body, there wouldn't be any need for vaccinations at all. Literally, we kill animals to eat them, develop a higher risk of contracting diseases, then kill more animals by testing on them to cure these diseases. It's quite stupid, you don't have to be a genius to realise that.
To add, I do have vaccines, because it is my parents' decision for now whether or not I have them. Some of my friends don't have vaccines. But it seems silly to me that we are focussing on vaccines when that isn't even the brunt of the problem. Sure, I have vaccines. But is that really the problem here? Look for the root of the problem. If we get rid of vaccines, people WILL die, because they'll keep eating meat, dairy and eggs. But if we get rid of meat dairy and eggs, we get rid of the (increased risk of) diseases as well as the vaccines (as they won't be needed to such a great degree).

[pi]

If everyone stopped eating stuff that's bad for your body, there wouldn't be any need for vaccinations at all. Literally, we kill animals to eat them, develop a higher risk of contracting diseases, then kill more animals by testing on them to cure these diseases. It's quite stupid, you don't have to be a genius to realise that.

You wanna chuck someone "stupid" like me a peer-reviewed source to back up that bold claim? People eating "healthily" by your standards won't get sick from diseases we vaccinate from at all?

 What a load of old tosh.

[geminii]

You wanna chuck someone "stupid" like me a peer-reviewed source to back up that bold claim? People eating "healthily" by your standards won't get sick from diseases we vaccinate from at all?

 What a load of old tosh.

I didn't call you stupid, I called the apparent 'necessity' of vaccines stupid.
Also, I said 'higher risk of contracting diseases', not that being vegan would completely erase diseases.

[pi]

You literally said "there wouldn't be any need for vaccinations at all". Which is obviously completely unfounded given you didn't (and can't) provide a peer-reviewed source that isn't from some dubious website like vegansforlife.com or asparagusisbetterthanbeef.org or something. The fact that you stand by not vaccinating disgusts me and makes you a danger to the community in my eyes.

You think that we "meat-eaters" are part of the problem, when in reality you should be looking into the mirror on this one. If meat-eating was the source of many infections etc, then that damage was done thousands of years ago, harping on about it now it honestly illogical, ridiculous, and unproductive.

[geminii]

You literally said "there wouldn't be any need for vaccinations at all". Which is obviously completely unfounded given you didn't (and can't) provide a peer-reviewed source that isn't from some dubious website like vegansforlife.com or asparagusisbetterthanbeef.org or something. The fact that you stand by not vaccinating disgusts me and makes you a danger to the community in my eyes.

You think that we "meat-eaters" are part of the problem, when in reality you should be looking into the mirror on this one. If meat-eating was the source of many infections etc, then that damage was done thousands of years ago, harping on about it now it honestly illogical, ridiculous, and unproductive.

Oh! I didn't realise you didn't know that being vegan can dramatically decrease your risk of developing multiple diseases. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ. The video is filed with a myriad of studies with, in some cases, hundreds of thousands of participants. I recommend you watch it.
I did not say that "there wouldn't be any need for vaccinations at all." I said the need for them will decrease, as the risk of developing the diseases we need vaccines for will have also decreased in the first place. Also I am pro-vaccine. Because vaccines save lives. But eating meat is literally doing the opposite.

[pi]

Linking me to suspicious and obviously biased youtube videos and websites isn't going to help whatever contradictory cause you're fighting for (against vaccines, now for vaccines? back-flip after back-flip in this thread from you). 99% of what they say is rhetoric and the 1% that may be scientific is twisted towards their contention. If you choose to educate yourself through those channels, then good for you, but it's not how I like to learn.

Link me some peer-reviewed articles published in reputable scientific journals and I'll read them and take them into consideration.

No doubt eating large quantities of meat is worse (fatty, carcinogenic maybe, etc.) than eating large quantities of fruits and vegies (risk from high sugar, lack of proteins and b12, etc.), but in moderation, the consensus is that it's actually fine. I prefer to eat to live, not live to eat. You're really suggesting the opposite, and I think that's a little sad. Life's too short as it is to be worrying about the minute % increase something is doing to your body, mainly because we don't know everything about the body and what else is causing problems.

Having said that, I find your comments absolutely ludicrous. You're firmly against non-human animal testing of vaccines and medications, and you've stated numerous times you're not in favour of vaccines or medications for those reasons, but you're still *apparently* pro-vaccinations? Are you trying to convince us, or yourself? Because to me, it seems that you don't really have a firm stance of what you believe, because you know deep down that going too hard-line is going to make you sound like an absolute nutcase. Where do you draw the line? It's cool to take the environment away from animals (ie. your house, pollution from your car, etc.) so they lose their habitat, but we can't eat them (despite obviously being omnivores) or use them ethically for experimentation?

It just doesn't make sense.

[achre]

Other than maybe pet ownership, I don't think it's possible to justify the commodity status of animals. All I mean by that is that I've read a lot of compelling arguments against the practice, and frankly nothing compelling in favour of it. So in that regard I, in principle, condemn purchasing animal products, including meat, dairy, leather, chicken salt and all manner of other things.

That being said, I still eat meat and dairy and all manner of other things because it's convenient. I enjoy it and it's easy for me to do. This isn't an argument in favour of eating meat or dairy - it's equivalent to saying that my most trivial interest (having nice tasting food) trumps the most basic interest of all life (continuing to exist). I'm happy to acknowledge that that makes me a bad person, if for no other reason than hypocrisy. I would like to go vegan some day, when I'm more financially and personally independent, but at the moment it's just too inconvenient.

Those are my thoughts on the topic.

Interested to see your ethical arguments against meat, I see nothing wrong in eating meat from an ethical stand-point (I mean, we're not the only species to eat another?).

Well, wild animals are hardly moral role models. You wouldn't take the example of someone killing their children, shrug your shoulders and say "well, we're not the only species to kill our children", would you?

That aside, common experience teaches that animals we farm for their meat, like cows or pigs or chickens, have an interest in both continuing to exist and avoiding pain. Industrial-scale farming can't be sustained without frustrating those interests at some point. The most refined and humane process would at least incidentally cause harm, even if its not intended. That's one moral argument against participating in a commodity chain that farms animals.

[Seņor]

So your justification is that you eat meat because it tastes good?

Hell yeah haha. Why should i chow on leaves when i can eat tasty meat?

Am i gonna put myself over a cow? Any day

When am i gonna stop eating meat? When all the cows in australia gather outside the parliament with banners saying pls dont eat us.

[appleandbee]

Winning the battle but always losing the war.

A mod should lock this thread. A "debate" without an open-minded discussion is pointless, counter-productive and not worth having to say the least.