Maths: Methods or General

[I_am_NickM8]

Hi all,

I'm not sure to pick either Methods or General for next year. Generally I'm good at maths, though am better at English subjects.

I've read that Methods is very hard in content and the scaling isn't enough to justify it, while General is hard in another sense as small errors can mess you up completely. Please tell me about your experience as well!

Thanks

[Joseph41]

Hi all,

I'm not sure to pick either Methods or General for next year. I am interested in the field of Architecture, and I know that Methods would be very useful, but I'm not sure if I should pick that. Generally I'm good at maths, though am better in the English side of things.

I've read that Methods is very hard in content and the scaling isn't enough to justify it, while General is hard in another sense as small errors can mess you up completely. Please tell me about your experience as well!

Thanks

Hey Nick,

Are you moving into Year 11 next year? Or Year 12?

Regardless, my advice is definitely to give Methods a crack - at least initially. If you're generally a good maths student and want to study Architecture, I don't see why you wouldn't. I mean, yeah, a lot of people find it more difficult conceptually than Further (General), but why is that a reason not to pursue it, really?

For context, you'd need like a 45 raw in Further to match the a 39 raw in Methods after scaling (depending on the year a bit).

But yeah, I'd definitely try Methods to begin with. For what it's worth, I did Methods 1/2 and then moved to Further 3/4. Probably should have done Methods 3/4 even though I did okay in Further.

[Aaron]

I've read that Methods is very hard in content and the scaling isn't enough to justify it, while General is hard in another sense as small errors can mess you up completely. Please tell me about your experience as well!

True. I also would recommend that you at least attempt Methods first and see how you grasp the content. I'm assuming you're in Year 10 at the moment? If this is the case, you can use 1/2 as a 'taster' so to speak.

From my own personal experience (both as a student and now about to teach in the area of maths): I honestly think giving Methods a go is beneficial, because it opens up so many areas in the fields of science, engineering, commerce/finance and those other related areas. I regret not doing Maths Methods back in school, I could have done so much more than just a general IT degree. But... the past is the past!

In the case of scaling, I think you should ignore those considerations completely at the moment. You need to find what maths subject works for you. If that is General/Further, awesome! If it's Methods, great as well! You are more likely to do well in terms of study score if you do the one that interests you the most and the ability to score highest in.

I would recommend also having a look at architecture courses and identifying prerequisites/requirements that you need to complete in Year 12. For e.g. the Bachelor of Architectural Design at RMIT does not require methods, only English.

Best of luck

[Aaron]

Yeah I'm doing Year11 next year, and the thought of picking subjects is a little stressful!

Tell me about it! You're moving into VCE. It's a daunting time.

Look to be honest with you: methods is tough. It will take up more time than General/Further, that's for sure. But give it a semester to start off with, and if you find that you are struggling big time.. then you can change to General. The luxury of Year 11 is that all you need for your units is a 'S' (which is VCE terminology for satisfactory). You can usually achieve that by submitting all required tasks and achieving a .. suitable mark (which most usually interpret as a pass). This means that there is no significant impact to your overall studies if you chop and change (provided your school allows it).

From your wording in your original post, that you're better at English than Maths... I am leaning towards General. But give methods a go first and see how that turns out

I've observed on my teaching placements students completing Methods - there are a ton of circumstances surrounding students choosing Methods (e.g. prerequisites for uni courses; enjoyment of mathematics; parent choice etc..). That semester I keep banging on about where you get to experience methods will tell you whether you should be in Methods or General, very quickly.

My personal preference when I go out to teach is General/Further. Applied mathematics is very nice for the 'everyday' person.

[spectroscopy]

If you're moving into year 11 next year definitely pick methods for unit 1. If you can handle it - great ! and if you decide its not for you, then you won't be too disadvantaged moving into unit 2 or even unit 3/4 of general/further maths. However, it would be much more difficult to go from unit 1 general math into unit 2 of methods.

Good luck !

[Aaron]

But the thing I like about General/Further is that it's more realistic and not as abstract (as in more straight forward and practical to everyday life). But there's no way I'm doing two Maths in VCE...

This is why the enrolment numbers for them are higher than Methods. It is unnecessary for alot of people, that level of maths. But you do point out that you want to keep your options open, hence why it would be a good idea to try methods out and go from there

Absolutely - maths is definitely useful, regardless of what maths subject you pick. The problem solving skills you obtain through it can be applied to a wide range of contexts.

You should be picking subjects based on interest, in accordance with potential pre-requisite subjects for uni courses. So your choice of English + LOTE is a good one, provided they are what you are interested in!

I never used to like maths (I was okay at it.. but I stuffed around) when I was a student in high school - it was only when I was separated from my peer group and entered uni on my own that I discovered the benefits of maths + statistics as discipline areas (so much so that i'm now going to teach maths... never thought that would happen).

Do whatever you can to keep your options open, absolutely. I think you've nailed it in terms of English & at least one maths. That covers a lot of uni courses. Don't pick subjects purely for scaling reasons - as this will likely end in disaster. Interest and a determination to do well will always overpower choice purely for scaling purposes.

[Quantum44]

Hi all,

I'm not sure to pick either Methods or General for next year. I am interested in the field of Architecture, and I know that Methods would be very useful, but I'm not sure if I should pick that. Generally I'm good at maths, though am better in the English side of things.

I've read that Methods is very hard in content and the scaling isn't enough to justify it, while General is hard in another sense as small errors can mess you up completely. Please tell me about your experience as well!

Thanks

Methods isn't an incredibly difficult subject, particularly since you describe yourself as good at maths. If you are willing to put in 30-45 mins of work every day and do plenty of practice exams, you should be able to get raw 35+, which scales up quite well. Even if you find Unit 1 and 2 too difficult you can easily transfer to further in year 12 so it's definitely worth a shot.

[TheCommando]

Just know that further as a maths subject is not accepted into universities (idk about vic uni)
The maths in further is completley different, its financial maths where u learn about statistics and intrest rates etc

[Joseph41]

Just know that further as a maths subject is not acceoted into universities (idk about vic uni)

What do you mean by this?

[TheCommando]

What do you mean by this?

Apparently theres no courses in unis where further is a pre req

[Aaron]

Just know that further as a maths subject is not acceoted into universities (idk about vic uni)

Apparently theres no courses in unis where further is a pre req

This does not mean that the value of Further is not there (or that it is not important), because it is. Further is directed to students who don't require methods as a pre requisite, but still want some sort of mathematics in their VCE program. Further is more 'real world relevant'  & application based, as opposed to Methods & Spec, hence why 2016 distribution data suggests (nearly) double the enrolments as opposed to Methods.

I honestly don't see why this is relevant to what the OP is asking.

The maths in further is completley different, its financial maths where u learn about statistics and intrest rates etc

More to it than that. The only part of this quote I agree with is that the maths is completely different to the other math subjects.

[spectroscopy]

I gotta agree with Aaron and back up furthers usefulness as a subject for real world applications. Regardless this is a tangent to the OP's original quandary.

Hey Spectroscopy,

Yeah I was thinking to do that, I might end up doing that in the end but I guess I'll see if I will. Had you done/are doing a VCE Maths course?

yea, so i did methods AND further.
i did unit 1/2 methods and did pretty shit in it but i needed it for my uni course so i kept it, but i also picked up further maths for units 3/4 (without unit 1/2) in year 12. I ended up getting a 26 for methods (enough for my course) and a 40 for further. If i took further more seriously i couldve done better but i was more worried about other subjects.  This is why i feel i can pretty comfortably recommend doing Methods 1/2 and if you decide to drop it after year 11 then pick up further maths as 3/4. its very easy to pick up further in unit 3 and is a very common subject for people to do as a 3/4 in year 11 (with or without 1/2). I am definitely not good at maths (hence the 26 in methods) but i do think if you have a reasonable mathematical aptitude and you put in a fair bit of effort you can do well enough in methods to meet pre-requisites.

[Aaron]

Thanks so much for the useful information, you have put things in another perspective and have really got me thinking about what I might potentially do. I might go with Methods, but if I can't get a tutor or I change my mind then Further would be better for me (especially since it's more realistic and straightforward).

You are very welcome. In the end you have to be comfortable with your decision, and only you can be the one to make that call. In the end, your happiness is worth so much more than scores (+ added stresses).

I think as well some feel Methods is a requirement to gain a high ATAR - This is certainly not the case. There are ways around the methods pre-requisite even if you do not do it (e.g. through a bridging program or short course approved by the universities.. it might take a bit longer but you are not ruled out altogether). I am not trying to discourage you from doing methods, but i'm providing you with several options to illustrate that going with Further/General as opposed to Methods is not the end of the world and you won't be at a disadvantage if you choose the alternative. 

But my initial recommendation (along with others) is to try methods first and switch if you feel like it's not for you. You can read everyone's recommendations here, but in the end you have to do the subject (not them!). It's all about being happy with your choice.

[TheCommando]

This does not mean that the value of Further is not there (or that it is not important), because it is. Further is directed to students who don't require methods as a pre requisite, but still want some sort of mathematics in their VCE program. Further is more 'real world relevant'  & application based, as opposed to Methods & Spec, hence why 2016 distribution data suggests (nearly) double the enrolments as opposed to Methods.

I honestly don't see why this is relevant to what the OP is asking.
More to it than that. The only part of this quote I agree with is that the maths is completely different to the other math subjects.

part of the reaosn why so many people do further is because it is so much easier and methods and spec is alot harder
Further is a more business subject. I never said really said it was usless or anything just thats not accepted in unis
However it definetly is viable of course. Theres nothing wrong with it. Its a very popular subject

[Aaron]

part of the reaosn why so many people do further is because it is so much easier and methods and spec is alot harder
Further is a more business subject.

With all due respect, Further is not "easier" and saying that is really an insult to those who choose to do Further. You need to understand that different maths subjects cater to different people and their circumstances/aspirations. Those who view Further as 'easy' probably have done (or are doing) one of Methods or Specialist Maths. Clearly they are going to view Further as an easier alternative, because Further is not directed at them.

Further is a more business subject.

wut