How do you know you're in love?

[heids]

I take back my statement that I haven't fallen in love before.

I'm currently head-over-heels in love with AN.  When can we get married?!  I've been going with you two and a half years now.

[heids]

So Elyse, I've been reading Essays in Love (great book!), and it again made me question the difference between my upbringing around love/relationships and everyone else's.  NOTE: this isn't a criticism on anything at all, I'm just trying to form my perspective on relationships and would love feedback.

So, in the community I've been brought up in, premarital sex and divorce/remarriage are both forbidden, so relationships are typically slow, serious, deep, and life-long.  Obviously I don't know their hidden heartaches and fights and so on, which I'm sure exist, but I feel they're happy.  I'm not a fan of restrictive rules but I do wonder increasingly if they're for the best.

For instance, my grandma fell in love with my grandpa when she was 17, they started keeping company (her term lol) three years later, were married in a couple of years, and had 56 years married before grandpa died.  It was a very devoted relationship the whole way through and Grandma was devastated at his death.

And outside my community?  I see people in dozens of relationships across their life.  I see breakups after five-year relationships completely shattering people's worlds, so they have to pick up the pieces and start again completely.  I see much more fear and uncertainty, because you can't (comparatively) rely on a relationship existing in the future, and you can't ever call someone the "love of your life" because lol, you've been through a few "loves of your life".

I just can't see how it's happier.  I also can't see how lifelong commitment and love isn't a thing, because I've seen very clearly that it IS a thing.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Calebark]

So Elyse, I've been reading Essays in Love (great book!), and it again made me question the difference between my upbringing around love/relationships and everyone else's.  NOTE: this isn't a criticism on anything at all, I'm just trying to form my perspective on relationships and would love feedback.

So, in the community I've been brought up in, premarital sex and divorce/remarriage are both forbidden, so relationships are typically slow, serious, deep, and life-long.  Obviously I don't know their hidden heartaches and fights and so on, which I'm sure exist, but I feel they're happy.  I'm not a fan of restrictive rules but I do wonder increasingly if they're for the best.

For instance, my grandma fell in love with my grandpa when she was 17, they started keeping company (her term lol) three years later, were married in a couple of years, and had 56 years married before grandpa died.  It was a very devoted relationship the whole way through and Grandma was devastated at his death.

And outside my community?  I see people in dozens of relationships across their life.  I see breakups after five-year relationships completely shattering people's worlds, so they have to pick up the pieces and start again completely.  I see much more fear and uncertainty, because you can't (comparatively) rely on a relationship existing in the future, and you can't ever call someone the "love of your life" because lol, you've been through a few "loves of your life".

I just can't see how it's happier.  I also can't see how lifelong commitment and love isn't a thing, because I've seen very clearly that it IS a thing.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Is divorce allowed in your community, Heids? Not just if it's allowed or not, but would both parties be able to exist without fear of ostracisation or judgement?

Because I feel this is an important thing to know regarding my thoughts, as it would mean one of two things:
>Couples stay together because there is no way out. This doesn't mean dislike; they could be liked, even loved. But even if they wanted out, they can't, and learn to be content.
>Couples stay together because they know there's no Plan B, so they try extra hard to make sure the people they're marrying is right for them.

I definitely do think love and lifelong commitment are a thing. I just don't think that love == lifelong commitment.

[heids]

Is divorce allowed in your community, Heids? Not just if it's allowed or not, but would both parties be able to exist without fear of ostracisation or judgement?

Because I feel this is an important thing to know regarding my thoughts, as it would mean one of two things:
>Couples stay together because there is no way out. This doesn't mean dislike; they could be liked, even loved. But even if they wanted out, they can't, and learn to be content.
>Couples stay together because they know there's no Plan B, so they try extra hard to make sure the people they're marrying is right for them.

I definitely do think love and lifelong commitment are a thing. I just don't think that love == lifelong commitment.

Divorce is sort of accepted, divorce + remarriage = ostracisation + huge splits in the church (i.e. those who refuse to let the remarried return without admitting they were wrong, will sometimes refuse to associate with those who let them back, and yes, that's shit).

I think it means both of those things tbh - definitely, unhappily married couples are forced to stay together and become content with it, but there are also fewer unhappy couples because relationships and marriage are a serious af thing and people choose carefully.  Also, I reckon because people know there's no way out, they won't risk blowing up the relationship and will devote extra resources to make sure it goes well because they're stuck with that person forever.

[Wales]

A tad off topic but somewhat related I suppose.

What are your requirements for a fulfilling relationship?

Is it that sense of emotional and physical comfort you experience with the other person? Is it the appearance? Is it their ability to cultivate your spiritual health? Is it their character? How active, outgoing, sociable they are? How they make you feel? Happy perhaps, or rather, loved?

Standards for a relationship vary from person to person, some are heavily deluded with ideology whilst others hold to truth.

[HopefulLawStudent]

I see people in dozens of relationships across their life.  I see breakups after five-year relationships completely shattering people's worlds, so they have to pick up the pieces and start again completely.  I see much more fear and uncertainty, because you can't (comparatively) rely on a relationship existing in the future, and you can't ever call someone the "love of your life" because lol, you've been through a few "loves of your life".

But like maybe that's the point?

Like ngl looking to the future is important but maybe we place too much emphasis on finding Mr Right (or like Miss Right if that's your jam) and living out some fairytale ideal.

Rather, maybe the point is to find Mr Right Now - someone who you can rely on in this moment in your life, someone you can love and relate to and grow with (btw this is probably a super general summary of my requirements for a fulfilling relationship). And growth sucks in that sometimes you grow with each other and everything works perfectly and your Mr Right Now becomes Mr Right but sometimes that doesn't always happen and it's okay. Like ngl it sucks; sometimes you don't even realise what an integral aspect of your life those little moments you shared with that person were until you're up at like 1am re-reading those late night conversations back when you thought you had forever and wondering where it all went wrong. It sucks.

But do you know what sucks even more than losing the "love of your life" and having to pick up the pieces and start again? Having never met them. Having never shared those experiences and memories and inside jokes that you shared with them. Having never loved at all.

LMAO am I even making any sense rn?

[EEEEEEP]

[Bri MT]

So, in the community I've been brought up in, premarital sex and divorce/remarriage are both forbidden, so relationships are typically slow, serious, deep, and life-long.  Obviously I don't know their hidden heartaches and fights and so on, which I'm sure exist, but I feel they're happy.  I'm not a fan of restrictive rules but I do wonder increasingly if they're for the best.

My concern is that this would make it harder for someone to leave an abusive partner, due to social pressure. I would much rather there be no such thing as marriage than no such thing as divorce.

[brenden]

But like maybe that's the point?

Like ngl looking to the future is important but maybe we place too much emphasis on finding Mr Right (or like Miss Right if that's your jam) and living out some fairytale ideal.

Rather, maybe the point is to find Mr Right Now - someone who you can rely on in this moment in your life, someone you can love and relate to and grow with (btw this is probably a super general summary of my requirements for a fulfilling relationship). And growth sucks in that sometimes you grow with each other and everything works perfectly and your Mr Right Now becomes Mr Right but sometimes that doesn't always happen and it's okay. Like ngl it sucks; sometimes you don't even realise what an integral aspect of your life those little moments you shared with that person were until you're up at like 1am re-reading those late night conversations back when you thought you had forever and wondering where it all went wrong. It sucks.

But do you know what sucks even more than losing the "love of your life" and having to pick up the pieces and start again? Having never met them. Having never shared those experiences and memories and inside jokes that you shared with them. Having never loved at all.

LMAO am I even making any sense rn?

I love this post so much.

[elysepopplewell]

But like maybe that's the point?

Like ngl looking to the future is important but maybe we place too much emphasis on finding Mr Right (or like Miss Right if that's your jam) and living out some fairytale ideal.

Rather, maybe the point is to find Mr Right Now - someone who you can rely on in this moment in your life, someone you can love and relate to and grow with (btw this is probably a super general summary of my requirements for a fulfilling relationship). And growth sucks in that sometimes you grow with each other and everything works perfectly and your Mr Right Now becomes Mr Right but sometimes that doesn't always happen and it's okay. Like ngl it sucks; sometimes you don't even realise what an integral aspect of your life those little moments you shared with that person were until you're up at like 1am re-reading those late night conversations back when you thought you had forever and wondering where it all went wrong. It sucks.

But do you know what sucks even more than losing the "love of your life" and having to pick up the pieces and start again? Having never met them. Having never shared those experiences and memories and inside jokes that you shared with them. Having never loved at all.

LMAO am I even making any sense rn?

Incredible!!!!

I met a lady (60+) earlier this year who didn't tell me a lot about her relationships in life, although I think I worked out one marriage, potentially one partner's death, and a few other relationships (long and short distance) that seemed right at the time. She lives in a beautiful apartment all by herself and in the time I spent with her, she was called by friends at least 3 times a day where they were checking in and chatting all the time. Never lonely. Very inspired. And maybe this is the way she would see it all too! I have always been fond of "I want a lifetime of careers, not a career for a lifetime" and maybe I want a lifetime of relationships, not a relationship for a lifetime!

[vox nihili]

Incredible!!!!

I met a lady (60+) earlier this year who didn't tell me a lot about her relationships in life, although I think I worked out one marriage, potentially one partner's death, and a few other relationships (long and short distance) that seemed right at the time. She lives in a beautiful apartment all by herself and in the time I spent with her, she was called by friends at least 3 times a day where they were checking in and chatting all the time. Never lonely. Very inspired. And maybe this is the way she would see it all too! I have always been fond of "I want a lifetime of careers, not a career for a lifetime" and maybe I want a lifetime of relationships, not a relationship for a lifetime!

There's a really positive message in this.

One thing that love definitely shouldn't be is the thing that defines your life. And by that I mean there's a lot more to life than relationships and you shouldn't have to sacrifice yourself as a person.

Harks back to the cliche that you've got to love yourself before you can love anyone else. Sounds like this lady nailed that.

[heids]

While I agree that some flexibility is needed, no one should stay in abusive relationships, a relationship isn't the
centre of life - I can't seem to accept that more chopping and changing makes people happier.  I guess it inevitably goes along with the internet, social media, shorter attention spans, quicker job turnover, general impatience, dating sites, ever searching for a better dinner/partner/job/whatever and so on, all of which make me uncomfortable. 

Is there something wrong with me for feeling this?

Harks back to the cliche that you've got to love yourself before you can love anyone else. Sounds like this lady nailed that.

Is this honestly true? I know everyone says it, but I love others fiercely, and I wouldn't call that a fake, false, or obsessive love, and yet I most certainly do not love myself.  I can accept that objectively I'm not worse than others and am just as lovable - I'm not special enough to be uniquely bad! - I just can't love myself.

[vox nihili]

Is this honestly true? I know everyone says it, but I love others fiercely, and I wouldn't call that a fake, false, or obsessive love, and yet I most certainly do not love myself.  I can accept that objectively I'm not worse than others and am just as lovable - I'm not special enough to be uniquely bad! - I just can't love myself.

Yeah I agree. Like most clichés it oversimplifies things a bit.

I don't think not being able to love yourself means that you can't love others. As you've pointed out, that's a fairly silly notion. However, I think in two respects it's still a valid cliche. One being that it's a nice thing to aspire to. And secondly that love can often be more meaningful if you're able to receive it as well as give it to others. I think a big part of accepting other people's love is having an understanding of why someone else might love you. It makes it a better experience in my view.

[peterpiper]

Yeah I agree. Like most clichés it oversimplifies things a bit.

I don't think not being able to love yourself means that you can't love others. As you've pointed out, that's a fairly silly notion. However, I think in two respects it's still a valid cliche. One being that it's a nice thing to aspire to. And secondly that love can often be more meaningful if you're able to receive it as well as give it to others. I think a big part of accepting other people's love is having an understanding of why someone else might love you. It makes it a better experience in my view.

I've always wondered what loving yourself means. Like is it like a narcissistic-inwardly focussed sort of love where you become both a therapist and patient, or just knowing when to give yourself compassion and knowing your values? Because if it's the former, I wouldn't be very good at it since all my energy is invested on sort of the external relationships I have with everyone. However, if it's the latter, I'd say I'm pretty good at it, since feelings and personal values are sort of something I know very well about myself. When people talk about loving yourself, I always automatically assume it's in this sense, rather than focussing on loving yourself in the sort of weird first/third person - if that makes sense lmao. idk just a thought when I came across this.

Just to clarify when I say "narcissistic" I mean it more in the freudian sense rather than belonging to its connotations of like self-centredness, greed, superficial etc.

[strawberries]

Ok I haven't read through alot of the replies but here are my thoughts...

to answer the main question, well, I've never been in love before, and personally, I don't believe in such thing as true love.
Why? Because I believe you can fall in love with anybody. Like, you just happened to be at the right place at the right time when you met your SO? If you probably didn't meet them you'd probably be married to someone else and you'd say they were perfect too.
and not even just that, lots of people are ending relationships/marriages with who they thought was their "true love"

so I'm confused. So yes, I don't understand how people can love someone in that way (if you get what I mean, like in a relationship sense)? Like sure, they might be a cool person (just like your friends are, although it's a different kind of love), but yeah, I just don't get how you could love someone in that way.

I'm not against love in any way, like, I think some people's love stories are even quite nice, but idk.
just my thoughts