Swearing, and females swearing.

[elysepopplewell]

I swear a lot and have a pretty well flawless ability to stop swearing when it would be inappropriate to do so (in front of customers, to my parents, at work). Swearing in general is interesting - when you break it down: they're words. But words, as we all know, can be more hurtful than daggers. So I won't pretend to act like words don't have great influence and connotations.

On particular swear words - there's some I will never use. I never use s**t, I think it comes from a deeply gendered and oppressive place and there's just no need. However, I do really enjoy observing Amber Rose's annual Slut Walk, which is all about reclaiming sexuality and channeling the word to be no longer an insult. Other racially or sexually charged derogatory words I won't use either. I've always cringed when people buy cigarettes from me at work and call them fags, even though they aren't referencing queers. I always just think "what an unnecessary choice of words."
So, what swear words will and won't you use?

I'm totally for people swearing or not swearing - I even one time did a uni assignment on swearing as an effective form of communication! lol. It is, after all, a way of communicating. Whether it's effective or not comes down to circumstance and execution. So, all for people who swear or those who don't.

What really gets me bothered, is men saying "girls shouldn't swear" or "I don't like when girls swear." Mmmm. If it's "I don't like when people swear" I'm like "100% noted, will never swear in front of you again because I don't want to make you uncomfortable." When it's about girls swearing - why? Why that double standard? Am I so delicate and sweet that saying fuck ruins your image of perfect little me and my capacity to express myself as an adult with words is frightening? Repulsive? A turn off?

I've heard time, and time again, "Don't swear sweetie."

Now, uh. Sweetie? Darl? uhhhhh. Aren't you like, 40? Aren't you like, fighting battles bigger than a 20 year old girl saying words that aren't being used aggressively or to hurt someone? Isn't sweetie what you call your 5 year old daughter? okk

For context what inspired this was this article by SMH.

So, I'm super interested to talk about swearing. No hate for people who do or don't swear in their personal, social, setting. Just want to open dialogue here - how often do you swear? Do you have thoughts about women swearing as opposed to men? Have you experienced the same double standard as I have? Students sometimes ask if it's ok to swear in their creative writing pieces - I say yes, because in real life people swear, so there's no reason not to create that purposefully in your story too!

When I was growing up we couldn't say shut up, bum, crap, or fart. We had to say: shoosh, bottom, oh dear, and fluff.
So, yeah, I think I've done my penance on controlled language for the first 18 years. And those rules still stand under mum's roof.

Edit; I used queer above. I previously thought this was a really derogatory word. I studied gender theory at Uni this semester and queer theory was in there, and I did a reading on the linguistics of queer and how for the most part it is reclaimed and a term used for the broad LGBT community. If it does make you uncomfortable and you identify as LGBT, and would like to chat to me about it, super keen to know your thoughts and experiences.

[keltingmeith]

Interesting topic, I'm looking forward to hearing lots of people's input!

Similarly, I swear a shit-ton, usually without filter, though. I've become better at suppressing it around employers, and particularly people of the older generations, but I still catch myself a few times. It potentially doesn't help that my main research supervisor swears like a sailor, but what are you gonna do? I think it comes down to my honest opinion that full-disclosure is best disclosure, and so I find it really hard to censor myself in general at the best of times.

On the topic of particular swears, I have no real opinion as to what I use. Obviously things such as "autistic" or "n****r", when used by people outside of those respective communities, is really upsetting and damaging to those communities, and I will avoid them. However, something that really (like, insanely) annoys me is an interesting double-standard that doesn't really get talked about. In particular, the words c**t and dick - if you say the first, a lot of people will instantly stop in their tracks, with mouths wide-open. Say the second, and nobody cares - in fact, one of the most common phrases in society that I've seen thrown around is, "oi, don't be a dick". I honestly have no issue with using either - what annoys me is that people think that one is worse than the other, for hopefully obvious reasons. Particularly considering they're both just slang for the genitalia of different sexes - is one of these two considered more precious than the other, and so shouldn't be used to condemn people? Or maybe one of them is just so bad that it should never be said? Either way, one of the sexes is being treated unfairly, which I think it just plain wrong. :\

Haven't ever experienced the "women shouldn't swear" double standard - but I'm also aware that I don't know many swearing women, so it's highly possible that I'm experiencing it constantly because it's held up behind closed doors. Personally, I don't have an issue with it, again - with the exception of the above situation.

Final thought, on the use of queer - as a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, I personally have no issue with anyone using these words to identify us. Obviously many will feel differently, many believe that terms like "queer" and "gay" fall under the same category as "autistic" or "n****r", some still see them as discriminatory and just don't like them being used ever. However, IMO, a word is a word - it's only the intent that's harmful. So, if you're just using to reference the community, with no negative connotations, go for your life. Queer is certainly easier to say than LGBTQIA+.

[Calebark]

On particular swear words - there's some I will never use. I never use s**t,

I thought you meant 'shit', and I felt bad for a moment as I throw that around the forums a bit! I'm a bit of a derp at times.
In terms of swearing in general, it doesn't bother me. I think anyone that has ever talked to me outside AN is aware of this, lol. I won't say s**t or f****t, but otherwise I'm not bothered at all. I find it so much more hurtful to say 'I hate you' than call someone a c**t.

I've discussed that 'women shouldn't swear' attitude with my sisters before, and it sounds like an absolute pain to deal with. I have no issue with women swearing because I've always considered women to be people (GASP). I also find a good swearing session is a bonding experience, y'know, and I'm not going to preclude anyone from that!

I think it's fairly easy to tell what swear words are considered 'good' and 'bad' just judging by what has been censored with astericks in this thread and what has not. Interesting to note imo

[vox nihili]

My view on this has always been that if somebody swearing is what offends you most in a day, then you've had a pretty good day.

Swearing has always and will always be an important part of expression. Indeed, it's a really important part of it and, arguably, gives our language a richness that other words do not. Frankly, those who can find the time to get really worked up about swearing need something better to do with their lives.

[elysepopplewell]

Another thing the above article touches on is the way women are often "protected" from swearing. Maybe I've also experienced this because of my age around older men, but I've definitely heard "don't swear in front of ladies" before.

Interesting topic, I'm looking forward to hearing lots of people's input!
However, something that really (like, insanely) annoys me is an interesting double-standard that doesn't really get talked about. In particular, the words c**t and dick - if you say the first, a lot of people will instantly stop in their tracks, with mouths wide-open. Say the second, and nobody cares - in fact, one of the most common phrases in society that I've seen thrown around is, "oi, don't be a dick". I honestly have no issue with using either - what annoys me is that people think that one is worse than the other, for hopefully obvious reasons. Particularly considering they're both just slang for the genitalia of different sexes - is one of these two considered more precious than the other, and so shouldn't be used to condemn people? Or maybe one of them is just so bad that it should never be said? Either way, one of the sexes is being treated unfairly, which I think it just plain wrong. :\

Final thought, on the use of queer - as a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, I personally have no issue with anyone using these words to identify us. Obviously many will feel differently, many believe that terms like "queer" and "gay" fall under the same category as "autistic" or "n****r", some still see them as discriminatory and just don't like them being used ever. However, IMO, a word is a word - it's only the intent that's harmful. So, if you're just using to reference the community, with no negative connotations, go for your life. Queer is certainly easier to say than LGBTQIA+.

On the D & C thing (that has a nice ring to it) I've had a conversation with a friend about this before, she wrote her linguistics dissertation on it for her Bachelor degree in the UK. She said her research found that what makes a word offensive comes from the sounds in the syllables, and where they are in the word if there's multiple syllables, and also the history of the word as well (eg, does it come from a racial discourse). I cannot remember exactly what it was about it, but I remember her using terms I hadn't heard before, like not just a consonant, but a blunt consonant, or something like that. C*** even has it's own wikipedia page here! And it has a historical use section, and I do remember reading something at one point that used it very casually and anatomically and not at all derogatory (I think I got onto such a text because I saw the word in the movie Atonement and then went from there). Looking online though, it seems C*** is used by dictionary meaning for a term for women - which isn't something I've found in practical use. Anyone, male, female, or otherwise, can be a c*** in my experience of the language. Maybe this is the Australian use? But it makes me wonder if it's power to shock comes from the fact it's supposably used on females - who shouldn't be called such things due to their delicate and respectful nature (lol) etc. Really interesting point, I'd like to know if anyone else had thoughts. I'm trying to avoid googling it because I know I'll fall down the rabbit hole but I probably will soon.

As for queer - thanks for sharing. I really used to cringe if people were using it to describe people instead of "what a queer situation" like, "what an odd situation." But my lecturer explained it's use as a tool of reclamation for many people, but a generally accepted word for the entire community. Really glad I learned about this!

[Shadowxo]

I thought this was an interesting topic

First, I don't swear much, but it's a more recent thing and also depends on who I'm around. A few years ago I used to swear occasionally, but now I don't. I don't think it's because I "shouldn't" but just that I don't want to. I don't have a problem with swearing, but I tend to think it should be used to emphasise feelings etc, rather than just throwing them around or being rude to people (the being rude kind of swearing I do have a problem with).

With regards to C and D I think it's likely the sound of the words. One thing people forget the word p***y, which is more like d**k in terms of crudity. Both describing similar parts of the body, but having different meanings (but both negative). So I tend to think it's not that one body part is more offensive than the other, or a word representing it is more offensive, but just that the sound of c*** is a lot harsher and hence is one of the more taboo terms.

With regards to females not swearing - I have to say that's absurd. To think ladies are these perfect little angels who never swear or do anything bad is outdated. It's as though they're saying "you can't do something because I say/think you shouldn't" which isn't right, especially as it's not harming anyone. As you said Elyse, if you dislike people swearing, that's fine (I do too - I feel excessive swearing is unnecessary although I don't mind if other people do it) but if you think someone shouldn't swear just because they're female, you should adjust your expectations.

[EEEEEEP]

So, what swear words will and won't you use?

I'll be honest here.
The swear words that I use depend on what people I am with.

The people from western sydney and my close friendship circle are fairly lax regarding language, so I don't watch that so closely.  They are also fairly politically incorrect and old school.  With these guys, any word is not off limits, (feminazi, retarded,  c***, f***, etc.. no more words cause terms of service ). It kinda becomes a habit with them as they use it sooo commonly.

The people from uni,volunteering work, I watch it very closely as it's a land mine . I pretty much avoid most swear words.

I have been swearing less these days though, it is a bad habit =)

[Joseph41]

I have been swearing less these days though, it is a bad habit =)

In what sense?

P.S. Love this thread - thanks Elyse. #sociolinguistics

[EEEEEEP]

In what sense?

If I find myself wanting to swear or something, I will stop myself. 

It's a bad habit, in the sense that I USED to would utter f words under the breath or something, when I got annoyed.

[Joseph41]

It's a bad habit, in the sense that I USED to would utter f words under the breath or something, when I got annoyed.

Isn't that just a natural reaction, though?

[EEEEEEP]

Isn't that just a natural reaction, though?

It is, but I suppose there are better ways of managing =)

[Joseph41]

It is, but I suppose there are better ways of managing =)

Like what, though? Expressing oneself with language seems a perfectly reasonable management technique to me.

[EEEEEEP]

Like what, though? Expressing oneself with language seems a perfectly reasonable management technique to me.

Let's just say that I did let a bit too much words fly out my mouth at my past work (which did give me a bad rep) sooo .

[elysepopplewell]

Like what, though? Expressing oneself with language seems a perfectly reasonable management technique to me.

What do you think about the whole thing Joseph41? Or knowing you have an interest in linguistics, can you add to the exploration of the D & C comparison in their forcefulness/offensiveness?

[zofromuxo]

Good discussion so far.
I swear a lot depending who I am with compared to just having no filter on it.
On the 2 years, I've gone to reduce swearing, I've noticed that a lot of the time I've or someone else has cussed it isn't necessary.
I think that's my 0.02 cents on it, its fine but do it when its necessary. I cringe occasionally at people that swear and cuss for the sake of it.