The VCE is biased

[mypurpleundercracka]

all LOTE subjects automatically have an extra 5 points added to the Study Score (raw score). THEN they are scaled to produce the ENTER subject score.

so thereby my raw score (before the +5) in Croatian would 32?

[Glockmeister]

It's not to do with how HARD the subject is, but what the STRENGTH of competition is in the cohort.  Students doing German must have generally performed better in their other subjects whilst those doing Persian generally performed lower.

You'd often find that this is the case where the majority of people taking that particular language are native speakers (or at least speak the language at home).

But 99% (don't quote me) of Chinese SL students speak Chinese at home...?
EDIT: Glockmeister did you mean languages where students speak the language at home scale higher or lower?

Language which are filled with people who speak the language at home would tend to have that subject scale down.

[chem-nerd]

all LOTE subjects automatically have an extra 5 points added to the Study Score (raw score). THEN they are scaled to produce the ENTER subject score.

so thereby my raw score (before the +5) in Croatian would 32?

yes

[NE2000]

On the topic of this thread, I would like to point out that while your work for revs is commendable and I'm sure you worked hard - I think it's unfair to insinuate that humanities subjects require more work than maths subjects to get high marks. Firstly, in some subjects (eg. physics, biology) you have to do full prac reports, some done at home (which tend to exceed the 30-40 page mark for many people) and some done at school (which do indeed involve memorization of tons of analysis of results; because most people don't want to risk losing their train of thought in high pressure SAC conditions so they memorize the contents of their report). Spesh maths requires constant hard work and study. Most maths/science students absolutely rip through one trial exam after another after another after another. If they don't, then they don't get that much of a high score. Now I'm not saying that this amount of hard work is in any way greater than the hard work you do for your humanities subjects, but I'm saying that it roughly evens itself out in the end. Also maths/science tends to be more competitive so getting a higher score is that much harder. It is my belief that (ignoring the luck that inevitably plays its part in these things) to get a scaled score of 45-48 in a maths/science subject would take roughly the same amount of effort as it does to get one in a humanities subject.

Although you have to note that from my subjects I a) have a clear bias and b) have no real clue about how humanities works other than Yr 10 and below. But I used to really like history back then (not as much as maths/sci tho) and found that if you're interested in the topic it's an interesting subject to study. And you also have to consider that many top maths/science students really feel a bit bogged down by the constant revision and stuff when what they would really want to do is to move on and learn new and wonderful things. You don't have that sort of restriction in many humanities subjects which affects your mindset towards studying. But again, the evidence for my ideas is meagre (if it exists), so it's just an opinion.

[Gloamglozer]

But 99% (don't quote me) of Chinese SL students speak Chinese at home...?
EDIT: Glockmeister did you mean languages where students speak the language at home scale higher or lower?

I wouldn't say 99% but I would say a high number.  Despite this, you have to remember that for those background students, not all of them speak Mandarin (which is what you learn in VCE) at home.  You have to take into account of all those speaking other dialects as well.  For example, for those who studied or studying Chinese Second Language, how many people did you know who spoke Cantonese at home?

[ninwa]

It is my belief that (ignoring the luck that inevitably plays its part in these things) to get a scaled score of 45-48 in a maths/science subject would take roughly the same amount of effort as it does to get one in a humanities subject.

Agreed, it was like that for me.

[shinny]

It is my belief that (ignoring the luck that inevitably plays its part in these things) to get a scaled score of 45-48 in a maths/science subject would take roughly the same amount of effort as it does to get one in a humanities subject.

Agreed, it was like that for me.

It took me considerably less effort to get a 50 in BM (1 and a half trial exams) than it did to get a 41 in spesh (probably 20 exam 1+2 sets or so).

[lacoste]

shinny: you just memorised your notes? (BM)

[ninwa]

It took me considerably less effort to get a 50 in BM (1 and a half trial exams) than it did to get a 41 in spesh (probably 20 exam 1+2 sets or so).

I dunno, I think that's a common experience of many people who did business management, possibly because it is such a rote-memorise-and-regurgitate subject. I got 48 without having done any trial exams, yet only got 46 in methods after doing maybe around 40.

[appianway]

I think VCE makes it much harder for students with high academic aspirations to undertake arts subjects. Music, for example, has an exceptionally talented cohort, but only scales slightly because of the relatively average scholastic skills of the students.

[xXNovaxX]

I think VCE makes it much harder for students with high academic aspirations to undertake arts subjects. Music, for example, has an exceptionally talented cohort, but only scales slightly because of the relatively average scholastic skills of the students.

that's weird. Because its a known fact that those who are good at music, are also good at maths, and languages, and even like media/art etc, because its that part of their mind they excercise.

[appianway]

I mean it in the sense that the arts courses are exceptionally competitive, and this competition isn't reflected in the scaling.

[EvangelionZeta]

I think VCE makes it much harder for students with high academic aspirations to undertake arts subjects. Music, for example, has an exceptionally talented cohort, but only scales slightly because of the relatively average scholastic skills of the students.

that's weird. Because its a known fact that those who are good at music, are also good at maths, and languages, and even like media/art etc, because its that part of their mind they excercise.

Except because musical talent requires so much time investment, they lose time in studying other subjects and bomb a little.  Or something.  -shrug-

Regardless, the most musically talented people I've encountered aren't necessarily the smartest ones, or even close.

Ninwa isn't allowed to reply to that.

[chem-nerd]

I mean it in the sense that the arts courses are exceptionally competitive, and this competition isn't reflected in the scaling.

scaling is not meant to adjust for competition within a subject

[excal]

I personally disagree with the topic creator. I think the VCE is biased towards the humanities subjects.
If a person is really good at English, they would be really good at other subjects that require essay writing. Hence as a result their raw study scores will be higher meaning it will be easier for them to get the top scores.

Says who?

A turd can not be polished with good essay writing skills.