Biomed to Comm??

[SamJam99]

Hey,

So I’m currently in my first year of biomed at melb uni with the ambition to do med (like so many others). However, I'm thinking about transferring to commerce (still with the intention to do med) for several reasons:
1. Given the nature of the course I can probably secure a higher GPA giving me a more competitive chance into med.
2. My back-up if I don’t get into med is to do comm then go into IB or consulting, or alternatively continue studies in law (although law is still an option if i do biomed). So by doing comm as my undergrad, I can save some time in the unfortunate event that I don’t get into grad med.
Of course, if I do transfer to comm, I would be doing the necessary prereq second year subjects as my breadth so that I’m eligible to study med.

Now I can already foresee some asking “which one interests you more?” (or something along those lines). I can genuinely tell you that I’m really interested in both courses and perfectly happy studying either - so this isn’t a matter of which one i like more. Although I should say, if med doesn’t work out, I’m not interested in entering a career in research or anything - it would be a matter of pursuing another a degree.
 
So I was hoping I could get some insight from some of you guys and address some issues/questions:
1. Will this significantly hamstring me when sitting the GAMSAT, as  chem, bio and physics comprise a substantial amount of the exam? Of course regardless of whether it does or not, I will be studying hard and likely invest in a prep course.
2. Will the unis I apply to for med consider a commerce degree unfavourably?
3. mentioned earlier that this is partly motivated by the assumption that I could get a better GPA doing commerce. I only say this because I’ve read from various sources (such as medstudentsonline) that it’s harder to attain a high GPA in biomed as a consequence of the competitive cohort. Now I realise and embrace the fact that any pathway into med is going to be hard, so I don’t want this to be interpreted as me being lazy, but of course, if i can make myself a more competitive candidate, I will.
4. My parents are doubtful about this idea, is there any reason they should be?
5. Is there some glaringly obvious reason why I shouldn't/can't do this?

Any and all responses are much appreciated.

[SuperCell.27]

Given the nature of the course I can probably secure a higher GPA giving me a more competitive chance into med.

Commerce is not a walk in the park if you want to secure a high GPA. At most, you probably have less contact hours, the difficulty is more or less the same. Commerce is more application c.f. biomed is more fact learning.

Will this significantly hamstring me when sitting the GAMSAT, as  chem, bio and physics comprise a substantial amount of the exam?

The more you know the better. But GAMSAT is mostly application based. They give you what you need to know in the stem, you just gotta know how to apply it. If you already know the concept, you'll know shortcuts or time-saving methods.

Will the unis I apply to for med consider a commerce degree unfavourably?

No. There are people from all faculties who apply for med. They only look at your GPA, GAMSAT and pre-requisite subject completion (if the uni requires it).

mentioned earlier that this is partly motivated by the assumption that I could get a better GPA doing commerce. I only say this because I’ve read from various sources (such as medstudentsonline) that it’s harder to attain a high GPA in biomed as a consequence of the competitive cohort.

I did Biomed. Very few scores are scaled. Most scores you get are raw, so you aren't compared to your peers. Sure the standard may be higher, but your score is mostly a raw score (not standardised like VCE).

[Orb]

Hi there,

Just going to address some of your points too from my experience.

1. Probably true - assuming that you like each subject exactly the same, put in the exact same amount of effort and looking at the *average* subject. But what you'll find is that different subjects will be different in terms of difficulty. If you did AM1 instead of BLAW, you're probably going to see your GPA/WAM lowered.

2. You probably shouldn't treat IB and MC (management consulting) as a backup to med. On *average*, it is easier to get into med than IB and MC. I think you're underestimating the difficulty of breaking into banks and consulting firms. Giving you an estimate of the numbers, top IBs and MCs take around 20 and 10 BCom students every year, respectively. Most places have 1000+ students applying with 3-4 roles. I'm not exactly sure about grad med numbers, but from what I recall there's around a 1 in 5 chance (or better) to get into grad med from biomed. Much better than 1 in 250 or 1 in 333. Of course, you can apply to 10 (or so) firms here, but even if you assume that you have a 1 in 250 chance of getting into each (which some students don't even have), you're probably going to miss out.

If you treat it as a backup, there is a 99.99% chance you won't get in.

3. If you wanted to do MC, you're better off doing a biomed degree due to the diversity premium that MC firms place these days. It's easier to get in with a biomed degree than comm.

Essentially, it is going to be way harder to work things out in Comm, so stay in biomed.

[SamJam99]

Some greats insights Orb, but I’ve got a couple of queries:

I wasn’t aware of how difficult it is to get into IB and MC - I knew it was hard but as you’ve said Orb, those numbers are worse than entry into med. Although I have to say, this isn’t what I’ve seen personally. My brother worked at Macquarie first year out of uni (and received similar offers from other respectable banks) and although he’s a smart dude and his marks were good, it wasn’t anything out of this world impressive (i.e. he probably wasn’t the 1/250 or 1/333 that you’re describing). Granted, he did this 6-7 years ago and w/ a comm/law degree from Monash so the circumstances may have been different.

This may just be incredibly naive of me, but is it possible that the figures you quoted include graduates/applicants from lower tier unis? I know it sounds harsh and somewhat pretentious, but realistically, you don’t have a great chance at the big firms (Macquarie, UBS, Goldman, JP etc.) if you’re not graduating from a top tier uni, at least not immediately after graduating. Are these numbers not better for Monash, Melb and other such applicants? The same brother I mentioned previously quotes that at Macquarie, it’s roughly a 50:50 split of Melb-to-Monash grads working there and I assume a similar trend follows in other top firms.

I don’t fully follow when you say that “if you treat it as a backup, there is a 99.99% chance you won’t get in.” I wouldn’t be pursuing med if i didn’t know that I stand a reasonable chance of getting in - that includes getting a high GPA. So whether I’m pursuing med or pivot to a career in commerce, either way my GPA is (likely) going to be up there. Would this not also give me a reasonable (i.e. better than 0.01%) chance of getting into IB or MC?

Didn’t know MC favours non-comm backgrounds. That completely changes things .

Note: Reading this back I realise I sound kind of hostile and even a little bit arrogant, I promise I’m not trying to be. Really appreciate the advice Orb.

[Sine]

Hey,

So I’m currently in my first year of biomed at melb uni with the ambition to do med (like so many others). However, I'm thinking about transferring to commerce (still with the intention to do med) for several reasons:
1. Given the nature of the course I can probably secure a higher GPA giving me a more competitive chance into med.
2. My back-up if I don’t get into med is to do comm then go into IB or consulting, or alternatively continue studies in law (although law is still an option if i do biomed). So by doing comm as my undergrad, I can save some time in the unfortunate event that I don’t get into grad med.
Of course, if I do transfer to comm, I would be doing the necessary prereq second year subjects as my breadth so that I’m eligible to study med.

Now I can already foresee some asking “which one interests you more?” (or something along those lines). I can genuinely tell you that I’m really interested in both courses and perfectly happy studying either - so this isn’t a matter of which one i like more. Although I should say, if med doesn’t work out, I’m not interested in entering a career in research or anything - it would be a matter of pursuing another a degree.
 
So I was hoping I could get some insight from some of you guys and address some issues/questions:
1. Will this significantly hamstring me when sitting the GAMSAT, as  chem, bio and physics comprise a substantial amount of the exam? Of course regardless of whether it does or not, I will be studying hard and likely invest in a prep course.
2. Will the unis I apply to for med consider a commerce degree unfavourably?
3. mentioned earlier that this is partly motivated by the assumption that I could get a better GPA doing commerce. I only say this because I’ve read from various sources (such as medstudentsonline) that it’s harder to attain a high GPA in biomed as a consequence of the competitive cohort. Now I realise and embrace the fact that any pathway into med is going to be hard, so I don’t want this to be interpreted as me being lazy, but of course, if i can make myself a more competitive candidate, I will.
4. My parents are doubtful about this idea, is there any reason they should be?
5. Is there some glaringly obvious reason why I shouldn't/can't do this?

Any and all responses are much appreciated.

as for you questions
1. Not as much as it would've a couple of years ago (given recent exam question styles persist) the last GAMSAT there was barely (if any) presumed knowledge so really anyone could've have completed it regardless of completing bio/chem however obviously you could skim read and skip some paragraphs if you already were familiar with the concepts.
2. Nah for the most part they don't care what degree you do could be enginerring, sicence, arts etc
3. The competitive cohort doesn't make it hard to score well (since most subjects arent on a bell curve) some scaling may happen but that scaling is generally up. The competitive cohort also just means more people score in the distinctions/high distinctions than they would in a different course. However yes I would agree that the content is more difficult than it would be in the equivalent science subjects. This is assuming the uber competitiveness isn't impacting your wellbeing.
4. idk about your parents
5. If you want UoM MD you will still have to do roughly 7 biology type subjects anyway (not exactly sure of actual number)

[Orb]

1 - There's a difference between working as a banker at Macquarie and working as an investment banker at Macquarie Capital (world of difference actually) so maybe check which role he got! That being said, there's a lot of variance when it comes to interviews - maybe he had a great day and thus performed better than others who had 'better' CVs (although that's subjective in and of itself).

2- The figures do include graduates/applicants from lower tier unis, but you're still competing against at least 30 chancellors students (include interstate ones). For example, the recent JP winter internship recruiting round, only one student to my knowledge came from VIC (out of 1000 applicants). To my knowledge, in MC this year, the top 3 consulting firms (MBB) hired around 3 BCom students in total as grads (from all unis combined).

3- To get roles in IB/MC you need to invest time in extracurriculars/work experience which do not apply to increasing your probability of getting into med. So you're spending less time on what matters to get into med as a consequence. Likewise, you'd be running a risk of getting cut from both due to splitting time on different factors.

4- Honestly, even if you look at banks, they take their fair share of Med/JD students (much less than comm) but the role is reversed for consulting. There is practically no tangible benefit to comm anymore, unless you are a poor fit for what they study in biomed (me) and can't see yourself doing well in it. In fact, if you're a biomed student, they don't even require that you know much about business when you're recruiting for MC - much easier track.

[SamJam99]

Yeah, fair enough - thanks man.

Yeah, should've clarified that he worked as an investment banker at Macquarie Capital.