Bonus Points for doing VCE French

[Mackenzie Aps]

Hi I tried to search for info on this so apologise if I am repeating a question. I would like to get clarification on the bonus points for doing a language. I hear that you get your raw study score (say 30) and then the scaled up mark (say 40) = this with the other scaled scores for other subjects then gives you your ATAR. And yes I know French scales up a bit but amount varies depending on your RAW plus yearly variations. Question. I have heard that you get bonus points for doing a language so this adjusts your ATAR for selection at uni? IE. say my VCE ATAR is 90.00.  I then apply for courses, and Melb Uni and Monash Uni I know offer bonus points/adjustment. So does that mean that if I'm trying to get into Commerce eg, and the ATAR for that course is 94 - then the Uni add the bonus points onto my ATAR of 90.00 and give me an adjustment and consider my ATAR as being 95? And therefore likely to get into then?  Question - Is there a minimum RAW score I need to get before getting the bonus points?  What is this? Thanks

[AngelWings]

Hi Mackenzie Aps. I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say, but let me try to break this down for you:

I would like to get clarification on the bonus points for doing a language. I hear that you get your raw study score (say 30) and then the scaled up mark (say 40) = this with the other scaled scores for other subjects then gives you your ATAR. And yes I know French scales up a bit but amount varies depending on your RAW plus yearly variations.

The 'bonus points' you're referring to here are already included in the scaling each year, which is why you see LOTE subjects having 5+ scaling most of the time.

Your aggregate is composed of the total of:
- your English subject's scaled score
- your Top 3 scaled scores
- 10% of your next 2 best scaled scores 
Your aggregate is then compared against every other VCE Year 12 student in your year and ranked. The rank you get is your ATAR.
 

Question. I have heard that you get bonus points for doing a language so this adjusts your ATAR for selection at uni? IE. say my VCE ATAR is 90.00.  I then apply for courses, and Melb Uni and Monash Uni I know offer bonus points/adjustment. So does that mean that if I'm trying to get into Commerce eg, and the ATAR for that course is 94 - then the Uni add the bonus points onto my ATAR of 90.00 and give me an adjustment and consider my ATAR as being 95? And therefore likely to get into then?

This is a completely different matter to scaling. The stuff you described above are subject bonuses (otherwise known as "subject adjustments" or "middle band subjects"), which basically gives you extra points to your aggregate (note: not directly to your ATAR!) and then translated into an "adjusted ATAR" along with SEAS (special consideration given according to your applied circumstances e.g. low income family) to generate your selection rank (which is why you see "lowest selection rank" on every uni's course pages). Please note that subject bonuses are not always available (Melbourne Uni does not have subject bonuses) and are course-dependent i.e. a Bachelor of Arts at Monash Uni will have different subject bonuses to a Bachelor of Arts at Deakin Uni. Each course you put as a preference will automatically calculate what subject bonuses and SEAS apply to you and thus consider a different selection rank. (You won't ever be told what your selection rank was.)

Let's give an example to demonstrate this. Let's say you don't get SEAS at all, you got a raw 90.00 ATAR in 2020 (let's say you got the lowest aggregate for that, which was 156.46) and you want to apply for a Bachelor of Arts at Monash. Here's the subject bonuses for that particular Bachelor of Arts (I found this on VTAC Course Search.):

Subject Adjustments

Satisfactory completion in one but no more than three of Classical Studies, Drama, Environmental Science, Geography, any History, Literature, any LOTE, Legal Studies, Media, any Music, Philosophy, Australian Politics, Global Politics, Psychology, Religion And Society, Sociology, Theatre Studies or Texts And Traditions equals 2 aggregate points per study. Overall maximum of 6 points.

Since you did VCE French (a LOTE subject), you'd obtain +2 to your aggregate i.e. 156.46 + 2.00 = 158.46. If we imagine you get no other additional aggregate points and no SEAS, this means that you will have a new selection rank of 90.80. (You can tell this from the Aggregate to ATAR table that comes out each year after ATARs are released.) Given that the lowest selection rank for the Bachelor of Arts at Monash is 77, this means you'd have a very good chance of getting into that particular course, because 90.80 > 77.

Does that make sense?
     

Question - Is there a minimum RAW score I need to get before getting the bonus points?  What is this?

Most of the time, yes. Subject bonuses vary for each course, so there's no set "minimum raw score" I can tell you. Sometimes it says "successful completion" i.e. S in the subject. Sometimes it says "30" i.e. 30 raw SS in that subject. Sometimes it says "25", "35" and even "40" in some cases.

In any case, you'd want to do the best you can to receive a higher raw SS if you want a better subject bonus (where applicable), which should already be your goal anyway.   

[Mackenzie Aps]

Hi Angel Wings, thanks so much for explaining a little further and yes although some refer to this as bonus, it is probably subject adjustment I was referring to.   So in my case, I am doing Legal, Methods, Chem, French, English and Revolutions.  So I have heard that at Monash you can get subject adjustment (bonus) for doing 2 sciences (Maths and Chem are classified as two sciences apparently ) and therefore aggregate bonus points. I cannot recall if this is for most courses or some. And then there is as you say below bonus points for Arts - so I have done Revs, Legal Studies and French - so 2 bonus points each?  So where would I find out what additional aggregate points apply for the various courses at Monash for example.  So I thought Melbourne Uni did offer aggregate bonus points for a LOTE?

[AngelWings]

So in my case, I am doing Legal, Methods, Chem, French, English and Revolutions.  So I have heard that at Monash you can get subject adjustment (bonus) for doing 2 sciences (Maths and Chem are classified as two sciences apparently ) and therefore aggregate bonus points. I cannot recall if this is for most courses or some.

Depends on the courses you’re hoping to apply to since each course is different e.g. Science at Monash does NOT have the same subject bonuses as Arts at Monash. You can find these on VTAC CourseSearch. Some unis display the subject bonuses on their own course pages too.

Methods and Chem are generally helpful for STEM-related courses. Humanities are typically helpful for humanities-related courses like Arts.

And then there is as you say below bonus points for Arts - so I have done Revs, Legal Studies and French - so 2 bonus points each?  So where would I find out what additional aggregate points apply for the various courses at Monash for example.

See above. For Arts at Monash specifically, since you will have completed French, Revs and Legal successfully (presumably), you will get the maximum 6 aggregate points added to your own achieved aggregate. On top of this, if you have SEAS, that will be added too to get an adjusted selection rank. You will not be told what your adjusted selection rank was or how much SEAS you were given.

So I thought Melbourne Uni did offer aggregate bonus points for a LOTE?

Nope. It’s been at least a few years since they did that and highly, highly unlikely that it will return. (I don’t think they used subject bonuses last year even with COVID.) They’re pretty much the only institute that doesn’t give subject bonuses, full stop. (All other large institutes in Victoria usually have at least one course they offer with subject bonuses.)

They do however still have SEAS and their SEAS program, Access Melbourne.

[Mackenzie Aps]

Depends on the courses you’re hoping to apply to since each course is different e.g. Science at Monash does NOT have the same subject bonuses as Arts at Monash. You can find these on VTAC CourseSearch. Some unis display the subject bonuses on their own course pages too.

Methods and Chem are generally helpful for STEM-related courses. Humanities are typically helpful for humanities-related courses like Arts.
 See above. For Arts at Monash specifically, since you will have completed French, Revs and Legal successfully (presumably), you will get the maximum 6 aggregate points added to your own achieved aggregate. On top of this, if you have SEAS, that will be added too to get an adjusted selection rank. You will not be told what your adjusted selection rank was or how much SEAS you were given.
 Nope. It’s been at least a few years since they did that and highly, highly unlikely that it will return. (I don’t think they used subject bonuses last year even with COVID.) They’re pretty much the only institute that doesn’t give subject bonuses, full stop. (All other large institutes in Victoria usually have at least one course they offer with subject bonuses.)

They do however still have SEAS and their SEAS program, Access Melbourne.

Thanks Angel Wings. Got it that Melbourne doesn't offer, so I may have a better change of getting into various courses at Monash then given the range of subjects I am doing and possibilities for subject bonuses.  At this stage I am leaning towards Law/Commerce - not sure if either of these courses offer subject bonuses (noting I also did Legal Studies but only got a raw 33 for:(  I may have a look at Science or Arts as well, given it's best to have a broad range of Uni preferences. Given that my SACS are all over the place at the moment I currently think my mid to high 90 ATAR's may be a far reach at the moment - more like a low to mid 90's.