Re: Results Ban

[doboman]

My 2c which I also posted on http://universitybargaining.com.au/2009/11/result-bans-are-now-on/comment-page-2/#comment-299

November 24th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Guys, stop posting saying “how does this help students, it only helps your hip pocket”. I’m a RMIT student who also happens to be very mad at this. But if we all get off our high horses and take a step back- we can analyse this situation properly and objectivly.

Having results withheld is very annoying. Agreed.
Students graduating or those who need marks for scholarships/transfers deserve exemptions. Agreed.
This is “soo unforgivable for UMSU to support this action”. Disagreed.

What you have to understand is, yeah those who are graduating (transfering/scholarships ect) need results. And im sure that they will get exemptions. But the main target audience for this issue is first and second year students, students who are just starting their UNI journey. These are the students who will suffer the most from what the UNIVERSITY (not the union) are doing. They are the people who will recieve sub-standard teaching and educational opportunities because classes will be have to double or tripple in size. Now I know it’s an inconviniece not to get it on results day, but come on you lot, it’s not that bad. Somebody has to take a stand for future students’ rights and we all need to THANK the union for doing so.

How would you have liked it if you were starting your UNI life with classes double your size? How would you like it if the only contact you had with a teacher was after a lecture for a brief minute? How would you like it if you recieved no support from academics? [And i can go on] That’s right, you wouldnt like it. But this is what future students will be subjected to if nothing is done. And guess what, the University is an organisations, and all they care about is making money [cutting teachers, bigger classes, less this, less that] so dont think the Uni is going to say, “oh poor students, we should give them an extra teacher”.

To rap up, yes it’s annoying. But it’s not that bad, and if it improves the quality of teaching and academic transfer, then we should be all for it. Not attacking the union.

Take a step back, stop being selfish [over a few days] and look at the big picture. Stop caring about yourslf so much [espc when it's only being withheld for a small amount of time] and think about how much this will improve other students if this happens to be successful.

[Collin Li]

To anyone who believes that poor quality of education is the issue here:

"It’s a fact of life that people love to complain, particularly about how terrible the modern world is compared with the past.

They are nearly always wrong. On just about any dimension you can think of — warfare, crime, income, education, transportation, worker safety, health — the twenty-first century is far more hospitable to the average human than any earlier time." — SuperFreakonomics

The “poor quality” of education is just an appeal for the union to get its way with their payrises.

[xXNovaxX]

NO offence, for I have NO knowledge in this field/University.

But I dont >>>THINK<<< Uni teachers have it hard?! Like I dunno, seems kinda a laid back job.

*dont hurt me*

But like, even if they had 200 students etc...you dont have to care for each one individually, run after homework, cahse absences etc. They just read off a powerpoint, and insert some of their own knowledge (GENERAL SUMMARY)

I know I sound really daft, but yeah. Like I wouldn't say Uni teachers have it bad? Like yes its HARD to get into a lecture position, and they are very intelligent etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, happy to hear rebutalls.

[Collin Li]

NO offence, for I have NO knowledge in this field/University.

But I dont >>>THINK<<< Uni teachers have it hard?! Like I dunno, seems kinda a laid back job.

*dont hurt me*

But like, even if they had 200 students etc...you dont have to care for each one individually, run after homework, cahse absences etc. They just read off a powerpoint, and insert some of their own knowledge (GENERAL SUMMARY)

I know I sound really daft, but yeah. Like I wouldn't say Uni teachers have it bad? Like yes its HARD to get into a lecture position, and they are very intelligent etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, happy to hear rebutalls.

Obviously every lecturer will have a different take on it. But as some people have pointed out earlier in the thread -- advertised strikes have had no affect on their subjects because of the faculty they come from.

Is it any surprise that Arts lecturers are more likely to participate than Engineering lecturers or Commerce lecturers? I've never been affected by a strike, and I don't think I will be affected by this one either. Their non-committal to the NTEU's agenda is a vote of confidence against the supposedly poor working conditions at university.

[Edmund]

While formal processing of results will be banned, students will be able to ascertain their marks directly from their teachers.

Maybe we still can get our results?

[zzdfa]

yeah they'll probably just put them up on blackboard to stop people from spamming their email

[Noblesse]

I wonder if they are still banned by the due date, whether the history of results trick will work?

[Edmund]

I wonder if they are still banned by the due date, whether the history of results trick will work?

Don't think that will work, they might block that...

Though the teachers might have the results and post them up somewhere if they aren't supporting the ban?

[Eriny]

NO offence, for I have NO knowledge in this field/University.

But I dont >>>THINK<<< Uni teachers have it hard?! Like I dunno, seems kinda a laid back job.

*dont hurt me*

But like, even if they had 200 students etc...you dont have to care for each one individually, run after homework, cahse absences etc. They just read off a powerpoint, and insert some of their own knowledge (GENERAL SUMMARY)

I know I sound really daft, but yeah. Like I wouldn't say Uni teachers have it bad? Like yes its HARD to get into a lecture position, and they are very intelligent etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, happy to hear rebutalls.

It depends. Often it involves a lot of marking in a very short time so the uni can organise graduation and stuff (at ANU, graduation ceremonies are held in December, less than a month after the last exams have taken place). Also, most lecturers do research. I'm not sure what it's like at other unis but if you're an academic at ANU you have to publish two scholarly articles a year on top of a course load. If you don't do this you become a 'teaching academic' which means you don't get time off (or as much time off) for research and you have to teach more classes. I don't think the teaching itself is all that difficult though, especially if you teach the same course several times. Academics are also paid fairly well and have excellent superannuation.

[QuantumJG]

NO offence, for I have NO knowledge in this field/University.

But I dont >>>THINK<<< Uni teachers have it hard?! Like I dunno, seems kinda a laid back job.

*dont hurt me*

But like, even if they had 200 students etc...you dont have to care for each one individually, run after homework, cahse absences etc. They just read off a powerpoint, and insert some of their own knowledge (GENERAL SUMMARY)

I know I sound really daft, but yeah. Like I wouldn't say Uni teachers have it bad? Like yes its HARD to get into a lecture position, and they are very intelligent etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, happy to hear rebutalls.

It depends. Often it involves a lot of marking in a very short time so the uni can organise graduation and stuff (at ANU, graduation ceremonies are held in December, less than a month after the last exams have taken place). Also, most lecturers do research. I'm not sure what it's like at other unis but if you're an academic at ANU you have to publish two scholarly articles a year on top of a course load. If you don't do this you become a 'teaching academic' which means you don't get time off (or as much time off) for research and you have to teach more classes. I don't think the teaching itself is all that difficult though, especially if you teach the same course several times. Academics are also paid fairly well and have excellent superannuation.

I want to take a step back into being objective about this! So is this true? academics will mark the assessed work and it's the administrators who distribute the results to the students. So is it just the administrators who are doing this strike? The academics who are doing this strike? Or is it both?

Eriny do you have this knowledge because you are hoping to be an academic? I personally would like to enter the area of academia, but I don't want to have this rubbish going on if I were to work as one! Where did you find this information from.

I think this is the reason why a lot of students would prefer the business sector than being in academia. This whole area looks like putting in the same (if not more) work than your counterparts to enter what seems to be more competitive and unstable area. This was the whole reason why I thought of doing engineering (despite it being boring) because it seemed much more stable. My interest in maths and physics was too great though to stop learning the two, so I decided to stay with these.

[Edmund]

Email to students:

The University of Melbourne and the National Tertiary Education Union
(NTEU) are currently negotiating a new Enterprise Bargaining Agreement.
 
Regrettably, the NTEU as part of its negotiation strategy has imposed bans
on the transmission of assessment and examination results, an action has
the potential to directly and unfairly impact on students.
 
The University deplores this action and shares the sentiments of many
concerned students who have expressed their views to the University and on
the NTEU website.  Students should not be held to ransom by the NTEU.
 
Historically the staff at Melbourne have been reluctant to engage in
tactics such as exam bans as they realise that such actions hurt students.
 
The NTEU action came as a surprise to the University as both parties are
now in a period of intensive negotiation and the University had believed
negotiations were progressing productively.
 
However, I would like to assure you that the University will be doing
everything possible to minimise the impact of the NTEU action on students.
 
At this point, we expect that the processing and announcement of results
and course completions will proceed as usual, in accord with published
schedules and in time for final year students to graduate as planned.
 
The University is watching this situation closely and as further
information comes to hand will communicate with students promptly via
student email and the student portal.  I would urge  you monitor these
sources for further details and, if at any stage you are concerned that you
are being affected by the bans, please contact your Student Centre.  A list
of Student Centres, their locations, opening hours, and contact details are
at http://www.acadreg.unimelb.edu.au/StudentCentre/centre/index.html
 
John Dewar
Provost

[/0]

YEAH Business as usual

[Eriny]

NO offence, for I have NO knowledge in this field/University.

But I dont >>>THINK<<< Uni teachers have it hard?! Like I dunno, seems kinda a laid back job.

*dont hurt me*

But like, even if they had 200 students etc...you dont have to care for each one individually, run after homework, cahse absences etc. They just read off a powerpoint, and insert some of their own knowledge (GENERAL SUMMARY)

I know I sound really daft, but yeah. Like I wouldn't say Uni teachers have it bad? Like yes its HARD to get into a lecture position, and they are very intelligent etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, happy to hear rebutalls.

It depends. Often it involves a lot of marking in a very short time so the uni can organise graduation and stuff (at ANU, graduation ceremonies are held in December, less than a month after the last exams have taken place). Also, most lecturers do research. I'm not sure what it's like at other unis but if you're an academic at ANU you have to publish two scholarly articles a year on top of a course load. If you don't do this you become a 'teaching academic' which means you don't get time off (or as much time off) for research and you have to teach more classes. I don't think the teaching itself is all that difficult though, especially if you teach the same course several times. Academics are also paid fairly well and have excellent superannuation.

I want to take a step back into being objective about this! So is this true? academics will mark the assessed work and it's the administrators who distribute the results to the students. So is it just the administrators who are doing this strike? The academics who are doing this strike? Or is it both?

Eriny do you have this knowledge because you are hoping to be an academic? I personally would like to enter the area of academia, but I don't want to have this rubbish going on if I were to work as one! Where did you find this information from.

I think this is the reason why a lot of students would prefer the business sector than being in academia. This whole area looks like putting in the same (if not more) work than your counterparts to enter what seems to be more competitive and unstable area. This was the whole reason why I thought of doing engineering (despite it being boring) because it seemed much more stable. My interest in maths and physics was too great though to stop learning the two, so I decided to stay with these.

I know most of the stuff I know from listening to lecturers talk about their job (they do that sometimes). I am thinking of being an academic though, but I think there are a few other things I wouldn't mind doing as well. I have many competing interests.

[squance]

YEAH Business as usual

WOO!! Awesome!
(I still hate the NTEU though)

[beezy4eva]

WHY IS THE STUDENT UNION SUPPORTING THIS? I thought the whole point of the union was to look out for OUR welfare, not the teachers. Not releasing our grades which we have a right to know is NOT beneficial for us.