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December 22, 2025, 02:41:34 pm

Author Topic: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE  (Read 74451 times)  Share 

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QuantumJG

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #195 on: December 19, 2009, 09:14:38 am »
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"Never let your schooling interfere with your education." - Mark Twain

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education" - Albert Einstein

I don't really know Mark Twain, but it sounds as though your schooling and education are meant to be separate, basically it may mean that you shouldn't live you life reading text books, but learning about the world through experience.

Einstein on the other hand I know quite well. Basically he was a very stubborn person who hated schooling and had to be convinced by his parents to finish it. When he went to uni he basically skiped most classes to just think outside.

His real worked started in the patent office he worked at, where he would spend his free time thinking about what physicists had theorised. But as he became older his stubborness became even worse and he went off on a tangent to finding his grand unified theory and took absolutely no interest into quantum mechanics, because of it's uncertainty.

To a certain degree I think that both mean the same thing.

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NE2000

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #196 on: December 19, 2009, 10:25:37 am »
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lol they do mean the same thing. They were intended to complement each other, but also show the subjective interpretation of the word 'education'.

Btw, I'm sorry for inadvertently turning a thread full of such interesting discussion off topic....let's try and get back on track.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 11:14:57 am by NE2000 »
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chansthename

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #197 on: December 19, 2009, 11:04:19 am »
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c'mon guys

mark twain, the adventures of huckleberry finn?


hard

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #198 on: December 19, 2009, 01:18:53 pm »
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... who cares about james lu seriously its just another persons opinion who seemed to ace VCE. WHO CARES GET OVER IT farrrrrr people arguing about one persons opinion is sad. 14 pages of nothing but james lu god if i was james lu and saw this id be incredibly amazed at the amount of time people would waste on me

ZachCharge

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #199 on: December 19, 2009, 01:26:17 pm »
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... who cares about james lu seriously its just another persons opinion who seemed to ace VCE. WHO CARES GET OVER IT farrrrrr people arguing about one persons opinion is sad. 14 pages of nothing but james lu god if i was james lu and saw this id be incredibly amazed at the amount of time people would waste on me
No matter who wrote it, the points brought up from the letter and the comments made by everyone here are still valid.
Although, I see how this thread may be seen as coal, steaming up the guys apparently large ego lol.
Hmm...next year already. Well better set my goals and all...(raw)
Methods CAS [35] Further [42] English [33-5ish?] Lit [35] Revolutions [Ehhh]

hard

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #200 on: December 19, 2009, 01:28:12 pm »
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... who cares about james lu seriously its just another persons opinion who seemed to ace VCE. WHO CARES GET OVER IT farrrrrr people arguing about one persons opinion is sad. 14 pages of nothing but james lu god if i was james lu and saw this id be incredibly amazed at the amount of time people would waste on me
everyone has an opinion about vce i dont see why a 14 page thread needs to be started just because a person with 99.95 made a few points.
No matter who wrote it, the points brought up are still valid.
Although, this thread may be seen as coal, steaming up the guys apparently large ego.

m@tty

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #201 on: December 19, 2009, 01:34:13 pm »
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Who cares who started it, I don't. We are discussing some of the issues brought up, because they are real.
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xXNovaxX

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #202 on: December 19, 2009, 02:41:18 pm »
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Yeah, I like this thread :)

It may one day bring about change, I don't think this thread is JUST about James Lu, in fact it no longer is directly linked to him (ignore the thread title), but some of his points he made are actually relevant and made people THINK.

The Education Revolution has started.

SoarBeyond

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #203 on: December 19, 2009, 02:47:30 pm »
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lol

kyzoo

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #204 on: December 19, 2009, 09:21:07 pm »
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... who cares about james lu seriously its just another persons opinion who seemed to ace VCE. WHO CARES GET OVER IT farrrrrr people arguing about one persons opinion is sad. 14 pages of nothing but james lu god if i was james lu and saw this id be incredibly amazed at the amount of time people would waste on me

Lolz it's not about "one person's opinion", it's about the flaws in the VCE system. James Lu is merely the stimulus.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 09:30:20 pm by kyzoo »
2009
~ Methods (Non-CAS) [48 --> 49.4]

2010
~ Spesh [50 --> 51.6]
~ Physics [50 --> 50]
~ Chem [43 --> 46.5]
~ English [46 --> 46.2]
~ UMEP Maths [5.0]

2010 ATAR: 99.90
Aggregate 206.8

NOTE: PLEASE CONTACT ME ON EMAIL - [email protected] if you are looking for a swift reply.

twoplustwoisfive

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #205 on: December 20, 2009, 01:15:34 am »
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So.
Having read, laughed, and pulled funny faces at 14 pages of sentiments in this intellectual hotpot of a discussion ranging from outright sycophancy for james to those of pyros whose only joy in life is to flame others, I'll try reignite this debate from its apparent abysmal decline into quotidian bickering over whose historical idols are better.

Firstly, addressing all the flamers: you have no business here. This thread was not created to attack james. You may attack him only if can match him. Challenge laid.

Secondly, on to the debate at hand. Early on this was about scaling and whether this breeds mediocrity, james' favorite word. Scaling was invented for the same reason as rewarding those who choose to do a Uni subject a 5.5 max score contribution. although this isn't much, it does run along the same vein of thought: that harder subjects should be rewarded more to encourage ongoing educational stimulus and prevent intellectual stagnation with subject choice. without something like scaling subjects like Specialist would contribute as much to aggregate as something like home tech. an absurd idea. granted the scaling is not perfect and the debate has been primarily sparked by fear of inequality of scaling: it is hard to differentiate which subjects are 'tougher' e.g. legal and national politics? while the system may be flawed in terms of its inherent subjectivity, you are a fool if you blame vcaa.
regarding scaling over 50: it does seem unfair. but if you were to rid over 50 results, you would need to remove 5.5 max uni subject score.
regarding scaling affecting intellectual curiosity: in my opinion, most students who chose subjects for scaling are doomed to fail as some have pointed out and even given personal anecdotes about... those who choose a subject because it appeals to them will do better and so will be rewarded more. those who exploit the system as james says and succeed in their exploits are likely to be of the character that scaling or no, they would achieve good scores simply by their perseverance.
i think the vce system is good in that it offers much to chose from and so gives potential for all to be interested in. it is not vcaa's responsibility, but rather the school's to maintain a love for learning by teaching coursework in an appealing fashion, which i know is easier said than done. also teachers should not be bound by the course, as they should not limit students' curiosity, should they possess some (most do).
at this point in time those with attention spans long enough to still be reading this rant would be thinking: again, another poster with no alternative
at this point i riposte vigorously with a veritable lexicon of polysyllabic, illogical procession of compound adjectives.
what if there were no aggregate, only study scores? university courses would be more detailed in their pre-requisites and so students do the pre-req subjects that lead into their career choice. there would be no need for scaling and students would do what they were interested in. of course universities would look for students who have a broad range of subjects like LOTEs to indicate a lively intellectual curiosity. in this way uni admins will have to do a bit more than just ring up people on the day of results... but isnt that what's needed to improve this education system? to encourage a continued drive for obtaining a holistic education beyond high school? or year 10?
i hear you say this: most students do not know what they want to do for their careers.
i know. tell me about it. but in this case they would choose a broad range of subjects which most appeal to them to ensure maximum career path.
please comment and critique delineated replacement system.
my fingers are becoming tired. i end this post abrup

xXNovaxX

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #206 on: December 20, 2009, 01:32:21 am »
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Fantastic post :)

Mao

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #207 on: December 20, 2009, 02:15:24 am »
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Firstly, I congratulate you on a well thought out reply. However, about your system:

at this point i riposte vigorously with a veritable lexicon of polysyllabic, illogical procession of compound adjectives.
what if there were no aggregate, only study scores? university courses would be more detailed in their pre-requisites and so students do the pre-req subjects that lead into their career choice. there would be no need for scaling and students would do what they were interested in. of course universities would look for students who have a broad range of subjects like LOTEs to indicate a lively intellectual curiosity. in this way uni admins will have to do a bit more than just ring up people on the day of results... but isnt that what's needed to improve this education system? to encourage a continued drive for obtaining a holistic education beyond high school? or year 10?
i hear you say this: most students do not know what they want to do for their careers.
i know. tell me about it. but in this case they would choose a broad range of subjects which most appeal to them to ensure maximum career path.
please comment and critique delineated replacement system.
my fingers are becoming tired. i end this post abrup

I ask the same question you asked about scaling:

Hypothetically, two students are applying for BSc. Student A studied National Politics, student B studied Legal Studies. Their scores are identical in both subjects, and their scores in other subjects are otherwise identical. They both fall on the edge of selection and only one student may be chosen. How do you choose?

The answer to that is exactly what scaling does. It does not reward a study based on its difficulty (although it seems like it). It rewards a study based on the strength of the cohort, it rewards a study based on the level of competition within that subject, it rewards a study based on the demographic of students chosen it. The difference is akin to the difference when the Soccer World Cup is compared to the A-league. No one decides on a number for scaling, it is simply a statistic.
Why has SM scaling fallen significantly? Because a greater range of people are doing it, and the competition within is no longer that much different to the average competition (taken from the GAT).

A system like yours will be subjected to the same problem we currently experience. Great work for trying, but when this wide range of subjects are offered, I can't honestly say that there might even be a system that is fair.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 02:17:48 am by Mao »
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Eriny

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #208 on: December 20, 2009, 10:59:10 am »
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what if there were no aggregate, only study scores? university courses would be more detailed in their pre-requisites and so students do the pre-req subjects that lead into their career choice. there would be no need for scaling and students would do what they were interested in. of course universities would look for students who have a broad range of subjects like LOTEs to indicate a lively intellectual curiosity. in this way uni admins will have to do a bit more than just ring up people on the day of results... but isnt that what's needed to improve this education system? to encourage a continued drive for obtaining a holistic education beyond high school? or year 10?
You seem to assume that universities care about things like intellectual curiosity and on improving the overall education system. They probably do, to some extent, but these matters are periphery. If it were the case that universities cared about being 'fair' then they would have already moved to a system similar to yours because ultimately they have complete control over admissions. But, the bottom-line tells them that this is unfeasible and you get people who did the Asian 5 with ESL get into a Law degree.

And preemptively, I've done a bit of work with ANU which was aimed towards increasing student enrollments at ANU, and the entire exercise is mostly self-interested. The programme gets rural kids into ANU, which is a great thing, but the motivation on ANU's part comes down to PR and i based on the idea that there are real gems that have been disadvantaged but would otherwise do really well at uni and would make ANU seem terrific once they graduate. The University of Canberra has similar access schemes, but it is far less discriminating and based solely on profit rather than PR. They guarantee entry for rural students who have applied despite the fact that they haven't actually even sat their year 12 exams (which, of course, makes the school look bad because those kids stop trying and get overall worse results) and that the careers teacher may have actually written on the application that they do not support it and the kids do not have the numeracy and literacy skills to pass. UC is given money per student and they're interested in maximising funds. Once the kids inevitability drop out, UC will still have that money. Access schemes, I think, are awesome and helpful for many people, but unis aren't just motivated by the idea of fairness.

I get the point I'm making is that if you hold an ideological view of university, it will ultimately be crushed.

kenhung123

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #209 on: December 20, 2009, 11:14:52 am »
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I don't think it matters. Nonetheless most of us are still doing VCE or have already done VCE. You won't change anything.