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December 23, 2025, 03:11:56 am

Author Topic: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE  (Read 74464 times)  Share 

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NE2000

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #165 on: December 17, 2009, 04:24:53 pm »
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Yeah American undergrad courses tend to be more general from what I've heard...
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m@tty

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #166 on: December 17, 2009, 04:25:28 pm »
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Broad array of interests :P
2009/2010: Mathematical Methods(non-CAS) ; Business Management | English ; Literature - Physics ; Chemistry - Specialist Mathematics ; MUEP Maths

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QuantumJG

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #167 on: December 17, 2009, 05:12:13 pm »
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With my subjects, I did every single one of them on the basis that I enjoyed them (apart from English). Anyway I had my hear set on methods since year 8, physics and chemistry from year 9 (physics was due to my obsession of astronomy and nuclear physics) and I also had thoughts of doing specialist maths in year 9, but after completing year 10 pre-methods my teacher recommended I did specialist maths.

I didn't actually understand scaling until year 11 (I have no older siblings, my sisters are twins and they will do year 12 in 2013 - atm one wants to be a fashion designer and the other wants to be a vet).

    
2008: Finished VCE

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Eriny

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #168 on: December 17, 2009, 06:12:30 pm »
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I think that the reason why the VCE systems and schooling systems generally (yes, even the IB) essentially limit and prescribe knowledge is because it's the only way to rank people, really. But I don't think this is a problem with just schools, I think this is the nature of institutions, perhaps even of practical life.

Look at it this way, we rote learn answers to our VCE exams and would frankly prefer to have the answers drop from the sky right in front of us so that we don't have to study anymore. We don't learn a discipline or even a subject independent from its tiny manifestation in the VCE programme. In a way, it makes things much easier for us, because our knowledge is practically spoon-fed. We 'learn' what they want us to learn.

And we do that, and we get into university and then we think: 'this is where the independent learning begins'. And indeed, for some degrees you notice that you have to do your own research and that's great, you can follow your interests... to a point. You still have a specific topic to answer, a specific set of requirements to fill and you aren't ranked based on notions of creativity, independence or personal growth, you're ranked primarily on whether your marker likes what you're saying. And sure, sometimes creativity is rewarded, but whatever you write can't be too revolutionary because in the end people have to understand what you're saying and there are word limits. And that's if you're lucky. Most subjects, especially first year, still continue to assess students on how well they know the course, not on how well they know the world or their levels of curiosity.

But once that's done, yay, you get to go off into the working world. The people who emphasise the value of independent learning always talk about how those sorts of skills are relevant for the workplace. But this is wrong. When you get a job you learn specifically how to please your boss, your customers, the media, whatever. You don't learn anything about life, you just learn how to do your job.

Really, the label of 'bright student' or 'high achiever' just means that we've ticked the boxes, we've done what others have wanted us to do and we alienate ourselves not just from the ethereal, ideological 'knowledge for the sake of knowledge' but from our own wants. And the only way we could possibly change that is to remove our dependence on other people for our livelihoods, we have to be able to survive without others and we have to stop being useful to others. This is insanely unrealistic.

/rant
That said, I think we can learn based on pure interest, it's just that we can't realistically forge a life that way.

Tashi

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #169 on: December 17, 2009, 06:37:16 pm »
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He probably lost interest.  Either that, or he's celebrating getting into Yale.  :p

Bah, I'm sooo jealous!

physics

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #170 on: December 17, 2009, 06:52:41 pm »
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as long as you have the prerequisites i don't see a reason why james lu should complain....

james lu doesn't have a VN account does he... LOL imagine if he read this thread LOLOLOL
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Davoo!

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #171 on: December 17, 2009, 06:55:50 pm »
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as long as you have the prerequisites i don't see a reason why james lu should complain....

james lu doesn't have a VN account does he... LOL imagine if he read this thread LOLOLOL

So trueeee! LOLOLOL.

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2009:
Math Methods: 35 [41]
Vietnamese: 22 [26]

2010:
Chemistry: 40+
Physics: 45+
Specialist Maths: 40+
English: 45+
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Hopefully: 99+
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ZachCharge

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #172 on: December 17, 2009, 07:15:43 pm »
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Just out of curiosity, can ANYONE think of a way that University's can pick out the hard dedicated workers from the bludgers other than VCE's system of ranking and scaling? I know this isn't the best mindset too have, but I have always seen VCE more as a filter to help University's derive the students who are willing to learn out.

I understand what James is getting at, it is sad that VCE doesn't encourage free learning (until you a free, which as Eriny has stated, afterwards you STILL are learning from what basically is a syllabus for your whole life), but I just don't see there being any better way for our secondary education to be taught or a better way for Uni's to pick their students.
Hmm...next year already. Well better set my goals and all...(raw)
Methods CAS [35] Further [42] English [33-5ish?] Lit [35] Revolutions [Ehhh]

SoarBeyond

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #173 on: December 17, 2009, 07:46:44 pm »
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Just out of curiosity, can ANYONE think of a way that University's can pick out the hard dedicated workers from the bludgers other than VCE's system of ranking and scaling? I know this isn't the best mindset too have, but I have always seen VCE more as a filter to help University's derive the students who are willing to learn out.

I understand what James is getting at, it is sad that VCE doesn't encourage free learning (until you a free, which as Eriny has stated, afterwards you STILL are learning from what basically is a syllabus for your whole life), but I just don't see there being any better way for our secondary education to be taught or a better way for Uni's to pick their students.

Free learning only gets you so far. A syllabus standardizes the whole education that everyone must receive. A syllabus provides students with the necessities, the foundations. If everyone hated maths, or English, and so didn't do them, and there wasn't any "force" to make it mandatory, why would they bother? Yet they are two of the most important subjects to survive in Australia and make a fruitful living.

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #174 on: December 17, 2009, 07:52:15 pm »
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Zach Charge, and everyone else, I think I have an answer to that, and Eriny's post about "rote learning"

I think you hit it on the nail without intending to, or noticing!

Okay, teacehrs teach us the subject....they filter the "important" things from the tetxbook, i.e. what we should know, and is relevant to the study design, and what isn't just a repeat of a previous chapter or concept. <<<everyone is arguing this is bad....we are just taught by the syllabus.

Well!!! *I am so hypo at this point* thats just it! the majority of stduents i.e. 90% of the class? Will TAKE this information, merely do the board questions, homework, and read the prescribed chapters to scrape through, get a "good" mark.

WELL, come EXAM TIME, examienrs need to DIFFERENTIATE between those 90% of students who merely follow the rule book, and the SMALL number who do their OWN learning (such as myself).

For example, in English I got my OWN quotes (so did many of u guys on here), ratehr than use the "class handouts".....i read EXTRA context books and movies (rather than the prescribed texts), AND I handed in extra essay questions........well guess what, that put me ABOVE my peers to GET the mark I got =D (40's)

Ladies and gentlemen, from what my teacehrs have told me throughout VCE, is to NOT just do what they have taught us, they always told the class "get your own statsitics (for economics)......learn new words (for english).....do every excersie in the book (for maths).......not just the MINIMUM.

THIS is what makes the difference between a person with an ENTER of 50 and an ENETR of 70+ (i reckon 80).

The system is designed to reward those who are DIFFERENT, and have done their own independent learning.....

I think this has answered a big question in these last 7 or say pages =D

Tashi

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #175 on: December 17, 2009, 08:25:43 pm »
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Zach Charge, and everyone else, I think I have an answer to that, and Eriny's post about "rote learning"

I think you hit it on the nail without intending to, or noticing!

Okay, teacehrs teach us the subject....they filter the "important" things from the tetxbook, i.e. what we should know, and is relevant to the study design, and what isn't just a repeat of a previous chapter or concept. <<<everyone is arguing this is bad....we are just taught by the syllabus.

Well!!! *I am so hypo at this point* thats just it! the majority of stduents i.e. 90% of the class? Will TAKE this information, merely do the board questions, homework, and read the prescribed chapters to scrape through, get a "good" mark.

WELL, come EXAM TIME, examienrs need to DIFFERENTIATE between those 90% of students who merely follow the rule book, and the SMALL number who do their OWN learning (such as myself).

For example, in English I got my OWN quotes (so did many of u guys on here), ratehr than use the "class handouts".....i read EXTRA context books and movies (rather than the prescribed texts), AND I handed in extra essay questions........well guess what, that put me ABOVE my peers to GET the mark I got =D (40's)

Ladies and gentlemen, from what my teacehrs have told me throughout VCE, is to NOT just do what they have taught us, they always told the class "get your own statsitics (for economics)......learn new words (for english).....do every excersie in the book (for maths).......not just the MINIMUM.

THIS is what makes the difference between a person with an ENTER of 50 and an ENETR of 70+ (i reckon 80).

The system is designed to reward those who are DIFFERENT, and have done their own independent learning.....

I think this has answered a big question in these last 7 or say pages =D

I guess so, although I think schools like MacRob or MHS probably prepare their students better. A student at just an average state school would have to do more independent learning to get the same mark. (I'm not criticising selective/private schools at all - but I feel I've kind of missed some opportunities hence why I'm moving)

xXNovaxX

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #176 on: December 17, 2009, 08:30:20 pm »
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^Nah Tashi, fantastic point you bring up, I should have thoguht of that.

But thing is, James hasn't explicitly put this context in a public schools vs private school scenario....otherwise it opens a whole new can of worms =P

My friend goes to a private school, and they use all these DIFFERENT resources, more trial exams etc for their pupils....whereas we just use whatever the other state schools are using ><

But yeah I guess we do have to do m more independent learning, in GENERAL

humph

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #177 on: December 17, 2009, 10:31:46 pm »
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Can't say I disagree with James Lu's argument too much.

Anyway, for those who either advocate having more universal subjects or having complete freedom, try comparing the International Baccalaureate system to the British A-level system (check them out on Wikipedia or something). Personally I'm a much bigger fan of the IB system, but by the looks of it most people here would prefer the latter...
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wildareal

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #178 on: December 18, 2009, 12:15:57 am »
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Mention James Lu in the GAT 2010?
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kyzoo

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Re: James Lu should be happy he got 99.95 and stop dishing out on the VCE
« Reply #179 on: December 18, 2009, 12:52:19 am »
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^Hahahah sounds interesting I'm in.

Some responses I have to make

- @ wildareal, that's an interesting point about scaling existing because VCE offers all varieties of subjects. I never really thought of it that way

- @ Eriny, even in VCE, the best scorers are the ones who understand rather than rote memorizing. To illustrate this, I'll provide a real-life example. In Physics, some people in my class compose intricately detailed, typed-up cheat sheets for Physics tests. I only write down 5 or so dot points in rough handwriting and I don't even look at my cheat sheet during the test. Even though those people have direct access to much more information than I do, I still end up with higher scores than them.

- @ Nova, I agree that to get the best scores you need to do your own individual work. I have a system where I have absolute control over the work I do. In fact, I often do my own stuff in class, ignoring the teacher, and even go as far to disregard the teacher's set homework.

And finally my own comments

- Detailed studies for LOTEs require individual learning. For Chinese I've had to choose a topic to research for a 7.5 minute discussion in the oral exam. And I'm having fun with my topic, it's something I've always wanted to learn about and now I have acquired the opportunity.

- The one thing I detest about VCE the most is not its discouragement of individual learning, but the overemphasis on score. All my mum is talking about with me these days is scores and I'm getting sick of it =(.
2009
~ Methods (Non-CAS) [48 --> 49.4]

2010
~ Spesh [50 --> 51.6]
~ Physics [50 --> 50]
~ Chem [43 --> 46.5]
~ English [46 --> 46.2]
~ UMEP Maths [5.0]

2010 ATAR: 99.90
Aggregate 206.8

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