Why do top students refuse to be acknowledged?

[monokekie]

Some top students do not necessarily require validation from their peers because they're just confident in themselves. Doing well enough that others might call it a great accomplishment is something they are sure they can do; they believe in their own capabilities. It's kinda like... "I don't need you to tell me I can do it."

I think you guys look at pressure the wrong way. There is no sense in "stressing out". Nobody is asking you to explode an asteroid about to collide with the earth tele-kinetically. Whatever expectations they have, it's certainly feasible and far from impossible. Wearing yourself thin over it will only hurt you. Have some faith in what you can do.

Pressure is not something you should be fazed by. When I was in grade 6, I turned down a scholarship I earned and opted to go to a public school instead. At the time, I said to my parents, "it doesn't matter, I can manage regardless"; consequently, they not only expect I me to do well, but they pretty much consider it a given, my problem and not theirs. Many of the people in my school, acquaintances, friends, teachers, expect a lot as well. A lot of my friends, in discussions about year 12, predict my English study score to be 50 if not very close. My accounting teacher often hints expectations of the same. My English teacher said she wants to see my name in the paper next year (even though I pretty much sat through her classes and did my own thing for the entire year, which was usually sleeping or something highly unproductive). Often I hear that I'm expected to score within the top few at my school (which, to be fair, is not that big of a deal in a public school). My best friend expects me to get dux. I've made a promise to get at least 99, which I intend to keep. Another very close friend and the top student at my school in the '09 year that has been helping me out with preparation expects the 99.95. To do this, I cannot slip once, in a single one of my 10~ exams. The course I want to do requires a clearly-in of over 99. I also have 3 siblings, and I can tell that they'd be amused if I messed up. I have 6 subjects including enhancement accounting, and no 3/4 subjects in year 10 or 11 to back me up (combination of bad reports, my own negligence and the sub-par nature of my school). To top it off, I don't plan on putting any course on my preference list below 95. You're much more likely to survive if you're not afraid of crashing into the side of a mountain. I know this sounds like a whole lot of bravado (and I wouldn't normally say all of this to anyone; I never have), but I think it's necessary to make my point. Erase the doubt from your mind. If you don't have the mental fibre to do so, build it. I cannot explain to you how it feels and the difference it makes to believe in yourself with absolution any better than this.

Oh, and I'm not a top student (if anything, just incredibly arrogant and conceited), nor do I make that claim. But what does that matter? Tomorrow is not decided by what you are and do yesterday, but what you do now and later. I'm not going to sit here in the middle of the night and argue with people over the internet as to how talented and accomplished I am. We'll see once the year is done.

there's no right and wrongs with they ways in which a person views pressure. different people do react differently to the pressures imposed upon them. by building faith (of getting a 50 in any subject) in a person, like me, who is natually unself-deciplined, not dedicated and not as talented as those like you, who sat through lessons doing their own things throughout their school years and usually sleep or do something highly unproductive while still confident about getting an Enter of above 99, the faith that you were talking about would merely become a false confident, which (you also agreed here) results from delusion and ignorance. the outcome of having that "faith" is plain to see -a sense of failure. the faith will become pressureous and it will eventually turn into a distructive force that can ruin the person's self-esteem.

purhaps, for a person like you, whether are naturally talented or have been academically cultivated since young, study scores of fifties may be feasible and far from impossible. (I want to believe that your confident is not false, not just like illusions). its important to look around and consider those around you who might have parents that are busy all the time and do not have your opportunities to sit scholarship/entrance exams, tendering their situations before imposing your own viewpoint upon others, asserting what you personally believe would work for them.

I don't want to argue with you about your talents and intelligence(i really can't care less about how you would perform during VCE,i.e, how many fifty/fifties you are going to get and how high was the clear-in for your course), nor do i want to make you realise how wrong you were (including measuring/selecting a course purely basing on its entrance score). i just felt the urge to point out that being overconfident about what's right for others can be rather inconsiderate, and this may affect your survival in spite of the impressive(hopefully) Enter score you are going to get.

but, it was kind of you sharing your personall anecdote of being a high achiever gonnabe you brodened my outlook about the many types of great people living on this planet. thanks

g2g, i need to got back and watch my drama; have a good evening, and i wish you the best of luck during your VCE!

[NE2000]

Some very interesting and broad discussion on this thread , so I'll just put in my two cents rather than responding to a specific post I guess

In the end, many top achievers seem to be fairly blase about some of their achievements. This is particularly in relation to and competitions they have been placed in or done for fun. Their view of themselves and others' view of them will not change based on how they go in these competitions. If they get a medal, they don't go around telling everyone. In fact, often, they don't bother telling anyone.

Many can't imagine how much of an unnecessary burden it is for people to expect one to get 50s. Why would you build on that burden by hyping yourself up? If you know you have the capacity to do well, then just go ahead and do well and celebrate the ENTER score you've earnt. Why would you want people telling you how well you will do, knowing that there is every possibility that a stupid mistake or something could mean you don't get that 50, or that 99.95, or whatever it is that you are aiming for. At the same time, I find it difficult to relate to the pretending you got around 80% when you aced something, because that's just lying and people will think you're being shifty. It's ok for your peers to know you're fairly smart to some extent, as long as you don't show off too much and, as I said, hype yourself up. Generally if one doesn't want to show off one shouldn't ask others what they got (as the reciprocal question is: what did you get?) and only tell people if they ask you. But seeing as people do lie about their scores, it makes sense for them to not have their name in the paper, as then no-one will know the truth

Another question to ask yourself is this: are you studying for yourself or for others to praise you? If you are studying for the latter reason I would recommend you try adopting the former approach. You study to get into your desired course, to gain access to the scholarships that can make your life easier, to push your own limits, to learn and often to achieve. But you don't study so that you have something to brag about. When high achievers do achieve something like a high ENTER, they don't see the need to tell everyone about it, because they didn't work for it so that they could tell everyone about it. They also acknowledge, often, that in the long run there is much more to be done than the ENTER. Successful year 12 students aren't guaranteed to be successful later in life.

So in summary of the ramble: some amount of acknowledgement is cool, but often for academic achievers being put in the spotlight for one's achievements is not the reason one achieved those things. One doesn't need to be congratulated and raised to a pedestal to feel happy with oneself, all one needs is to be happy that they achieved what they wanted to.

[kyzoo]

At the same time, I find it difficult to relate to the pretending you got around 80% when you aced something, because that's just lying and people will think you're being shifty.

I see...I never thought about it that way, I feel bad now =(

Successful year 12 students aren't guaranteed to be successful later in life.

I agree with this. My parents are continually telling me that I need to get a good score so that I can get a good job, and in turn get good money; but I'm seriously doubting this view that academic skills are imperative for success. Maybe it's because they are first-generation migrants that they emphasize financial security and believe it is attained by scholastic achievement. In my view however, interaction skills and emotional management is more important; the significance of academic prowess diminishes after high school, and diminishes even more after university, unless you are Terrence Tao.

[NE2000]

At the same time, I find it difficult to relate to the pretending you got around 80% when you aced something, because that's just lying and people will think you're being shifty.

I see...I never thought about it that way, I feel bad now =(

Haha, I'm just basing it on a small number of examples of lying about scores that I have come across. Maybe the way you handle it is better

[Akirus]

Read through the response to my post. I don't have time to do a fully fleshed out response yet (we'll have to see when my next bout of insomnia kicks in; probably later tonight), but I'll just say that while I know what you're talking about, you're off the mark (I blame the poorly written and lacking 3am post). Confidence is only one side of the dice. If confidence alone was enough, everyone would be winners (which is unfortunately not the case).

[QuantumJG]

At school we had some really smart people but there was one person who really annoyed me. He would always tell people he got less than he actually did and I guess we all felt that we were not good enough to hear the truth from him. When the mid year exams came out he knew how I went and was like 'you'll dux physics because I got a C' and then the teacher is like oh yeah these people (including that guy) got an A+ for the mid year exam.

Other smart people like someone who was scoring >90% in methods would always say how they went if asked (the real result) and we respected him for this an wished him the best with his results.

This whole thing reminds me if Good Will Hunting where the professor goes on about how he had to work had to get where he was, whereas Will effortlessly was a natural. I guess it annoys us mortals to see you guys get there so easily whilst we have to put in heaps to get kind of close to your rank and when people like you hide this success from us, we feel inadequate to you.

Please don't hurt me
 

        

[*ryan777*]

This whole thing reminds me if Good Will Hunting where the professor goes on about how he had to work had to get where he was, whereas Will effortlessly was a natural. I guess it annoys us mortals to see you guys get there so easily whilst we have to put in heaps to get kind of close to your rank and when people like you hide this success from us, we feel inadequate to you.

 

       

+1

[QuantumJG]

Some top students do not necessarily require validation from their peers because they're just confident in themselves. Doing well enough that others might call it a great accomplishment is something they are sure they can do; they believe in their own capabilities. It's kinda like... "I don't need you to tell me I can do it."

I think you guys look at pressure the wrong way. There is no sense in "stressing out". Nobody is asking you to explode an asteroid about to collide with the earth tele-kinetically. Whatever expectations they have, it's certainly feasible and far from impossible. Wearing yourself thin over it will only hurt you. Have some faith in what you can do.

Pressure is not something you should be fazed by. When I was in grade 6, I turned down a scholarship I earned and opted to go to a public school instead. At the time, I said to my parents, "it doesn't matter, I can manage regardless"; consequently, they not only expect I me to do well, but they pretty much consider it a given, my problem and not theirs. Many of the people in my school, acquaintances, friends, teachers, expect a lot as well. A lot of my friends, in discussions about year 12, predict my English study score to be 50 if not very close. My accounting teacher often hints expectations of the same. My English teacher said she wants to see my name in the paper next year (even though I pretty much sat through her classes and did my own thing for the entire year, which was usually sleeping or something highly unproductive). Often I hear that I'm expected to score within the top few at my school (which, to be fair, is not that big of a deal in a public school). My best friend expects me to get dux. I've made a promise to get at least 99, which I intend to keep. Another very close friend and the top student at my school in the '09 year that has been helping me out with preparation expects the 99.95. To do this, I cannot slip once, in a single one of my 10~ exams. The course I want to do requires a clearly-in of over 99. I also have 3 siblings, and I can tell that they'd be amused if I messed up. I have 6 subjects including enhancement accounting, and no 3/4 subjects in year 10 or 11 to back me up (combination of bad reports, my own negligence and the sub-par nature of my school). To top it off, I don't plan on putting any course on my preference list below 95. You're much more likely to survive if you're not afraid of crashing into the side of a mountain. I know this sounds like a whole lot of bravado (and I wouldn't normally say all of this to anyone; I never have), but I think it's necessary to make my point. Erase the doubt from your mind. If you don't have the mental fibre to do so, build it. I cannot explain to you how it feels and the difference it makes to believe in yourself with absolution any better than this.

Oh, and I'm not a top student (if anything, just incredibly arrogant and conceited), nor do I make that claim. But what does that matter? Tomorrow is not decided by what you are and do yesterday, but what you do now and later. I'm not going to sit here in the middle of the night and argue with people over the internet as to how talented and accomplished I am. We'll see once the year is done.

You sound so arrogant.

[Ilovemathsmeth]

I think some people lie about their marks because they're paranoid - other people might try harder (competition) if they find out so and so is doing really well etc.

[Akirus]

I sure am, although I'm not boastful (I stress again that what I said was necessary to make my point). There's no merit showing off to people I don't even know and probably won't ever meet. I suppose I can't really convince you of it either way, but it'd be better if you consider the point I'm raising rather than the way I did it.

[brightsky]

At school we had some really smart people but there was one person who really annoyed me. He would always tell people he got less than he actually did and I guess we all felt that we were not good enough to hear the truth from him. When the mid year exams came out he knew how I went and was like 'you'll dux physics because I got a C' and then the teacher is like oh yeah these people (including that guy) got an A+ for the mid year exam.

Other smart people like someone who was scoring >90% in methods would always say how they went if asked (the real result) and we respected him for this an wished him the best with his results.

This whole thing reminds me if Good Will Hunting where the professor goes on about how he had to work had to get where he was, whereas Will effortlessly was a natural. I guess it annoys us mortals to see you guys get there so easily whilst we have to put in heaps to get kind of close to your rank and when people like you hide this success from us, we feel inadequate to you.

Please don't hurt me
         

I might have a slightly erroneous interpretation of the actual context, but from my current interpretation of your post, I agree and disagree.

Some people lie about their scores with the sole intention of being modest. A spin to this is that a lot of people, prior to exams, although somewhat intelligent and have the ability to get say above 90%, but they will say something along the lines of, "Aww man, test next period. I'm gonna fail so badly..." It's natural to say something like that as opposed to talking yourself up to a certain level, and failing to reach that benchmark. It all comes down to one's confidence, and the way in which they choose is best to respond to blatant stimuli for them to "show off" if you will.

This is by no means a personal attack, but I'll just like to raise a point. People saying stuff like, "you'll dux physics" comes rather natural (in my persepctive). It is again both a sign of modesty, as well as courtesy. I see it as a polite way to give confidence to others, as well as an act of anti-ostentation. Consider this conversation (I don't know, it just came to my head randomly as an analogy to you're situation:p):

Person A: I'm so nervous about the exam in period 2, have you studied?
Person B: Yeah I have.
Person A: How do you think you'll go? Gee I'm gonna screw it up so badly.
Person B: Nah man, you're gonna ace the test. I'm the one that should be worried.   

Hope I got my sentiments across smoothly, please don't take any offence from anything! ><

[ninwa]

I don't understand why you need to lie about your score. Just say "sorry, I don't like telling people" and leave it at that?

[*ryan777*]

whats there to take offence at?
that conversation basically represents approx 90% of pre exam conversations

[*ryan777*]

I don't understand why you need to lie about your score. Just say "sorry, I don't like telling people" and leave it at that?

probelm is nobody ever seems to just leave it

[ninwa]

I've found that if I repeat it enough people just sort of learn not to bother wasting their time asking me