LSAT

[jejak]

So, the LSAT. Has anyone here taken it? If so, how did you find it? What is the content like? I've tried to find some sample papers over bittorrent, but with little luck. As I understand it, the test is mostly logic puzzles and so on?

I only ask because I would have to sit the LSAT for a CSP place in the JD at UoM. If the UMAT was anything to go by, this is a bit of a problem (i.e. will phayle.) Or I could shell out ~$90 000 for full-fee.  :2funny:

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[ninwa]

Why not apply for LLB at Monash? With your ENTER you'll definitely get in =\

[jejak]

Why not apply for LLB at Monash? With your ENTER you'll definitely get in =\

Yeah, I know... In fact the BA/LLB at Monash is my current VTAC 1st pref. As we're approaching offers, though, I've been having misgivings. I do like the Melbourne idea of doing law postgrad, as I don't know if a) I really want to do law, and b) if I've got the academic "chops" to do well in law. Whereas, doing the Arts degree first, I have time to gain more academic skill, make up my mind etc. Plus the city location is awesome.

At the same time, though, I don't want to be forced to sell a kidney to finance my legal education, should I choose to pursue it... And I like the certainty of doing law undergrad (i.e. don't have to struggle for a place.)
Basically I'm in a bit of a dilemma, but still, I think I should at least consider the LSAT.

[jejak]

Crap. Found a bittorrent pack of sample papers. Logical reasoning and analytical reasoning looks suspiciously like UMAT part 1... 

[*ryan777*]

Why not apply for LLB at Monash? With your ENTER you'll definitely get in =\

Yeah, I know... In fact the BA/LLB at Monash is my current VTAC 1st pref. As we're approaching offers, though, I've been having misgivings. I do like the Melbourne idea of doing law postgrad, as I don't know if a) I really want to do law, and b) if I've got the academic "chops" to do well in law. Whereas, doing the Arts degree first, I have time to gain more academic skill, make up my mind etc. Plus the city location is awesome.

At the same time, though, I don't want to be forced to sell a kidney to finance my legal education, should I choose to pursue it... And I like the certainty of doing law undergrad (i.e. don't have to struggle for a place.)
Basically I'm in a bit of a dilemma, but still, I think I should at least consider the LSAT.

isnt it possible to do BA/LLB and if you find you dont like law just discontinue law subjects and do arts?

[vexx]

i'd suggest you just do BA/LLB and if you dont like it or struggling, ect you can always transfer to melbourne or a different monash course, or even just (as ryan said) discontinue law subjects. there's no garentee with graduate and the competition is higher, so if you do the grad pathway you may regret the decision after not getting into law.

but ey, it's your choice, if you feel your not ready to start, go do a bachelor's degree first or even take a gap year before feeling ready and starting your undergrad of law.

[ninwa]

isnt it possible to do BA/LLB and if you find you dont like law just discontinue law subjects and do arts?

Exactly. Unless you are absolutely certain you don't want to do law (which is clearly not the case if you have it as no.1), go for the undergraduate option.

Also note that the LLB course structure is almost EXACTLY the same as the JD (the only difference would be in some of the electives offered). Pretty much the only difference is that you have to do the LSAT to get into the JD. And that's not exactly an advantage

[jejak]

Ok, there have been some very helpful and cogent replies here that I will respond to in a mo - if that's OK. Although I'm guessing from these responses that no-one has in fact sat the LSAT?

[vexx]

Ok, there have been some very helpful and cogent replies here that I will respond to in a mo - if that's OK. Although I'm guessing from these responses that no-one has in fact sat the LSAT?

most people here either go straight into law or aren't high enough in their degree to sit it yet.
(from what i've seen here, but there may be a few persons hiding in the dark here that we don't know about)

[jejak]

@vexx - Oh, of course. I can't believe I didn't factor in the age/degree progress thing. Sorry! Perhaps there is an LSAT board out there on teh interwebs. I do apologise for leading this thread off-track with my own petty dilemmas.

Exactly. Unless you are absolutely certain you don't want to do law (which is clearly not the case if you have it as no.1), go for the undergraduate option.

As you note, it's not that I'm certain that I don't want to do law. However, of the two qualifications (Arts and Law), the quality of the Arts degree is more important to me, as I imagine this is what would determine my eligibility for postgrad research degrees. I've found it very hard to objectively determine the quality of each, but my inner snob thinks that UoM might be perceived better, at least. Although I'm hearing a steady stream of horror stories about staff cuts etc lately, so I stand to be corrected on this point.

Also, I much prefer the UoM campus and on-campus accommodation. Sue me for being superficial haha. Of course, I realise that neither of these two points in UoM's favour are easily convincing enough to justify the uncertainty that doing the JD pathway would entail.

[ninwa]

Hmm...

I know that before the Melbourne Model, the UoM LLB was seen as slightly more prestigious than the Monash one. I'm actually not sure about arts degrees, though I think if you really want to go into postgraduate research, a very good option would be the PhB at ANU, if you're willing to go interstate. (http://arts.anu.edu.au/programs/ug/phb/index.asp)

And I don't blame you about the campus stuff, Monash is very ugly it's somewhat demoralising to see the lovely communist-era prison that is the Menzies building blocking out all the sunlight first thing every morning...

[*ryan777*]

Hmm...

I know that before the Melbourne Model, the UoM LLB was seen as slightly more prestigious than the Monash one. I'm actually not sure about arts degrees, though I think if you really want to go into postgraduate research, a very good option would be the PhB at ANU, if you're willing to go interstate. (http://arts.anu.edu.au/programs/ug/phb/index.asp)

And I don't blame you about the campus stuff, Monash is very ugly it's somewhat demoralising to see the lovely communist-era prison that is the Menzies building blocking out all the sunlight first thing every morning...

monash, ugly?
even been to la trobe?

[ninwa]

No, and it sounds like I should be grateful for that...

[vexx]

Hmm...

I know that before the Melbourne Model, the UoM LLB was seen as slightly more prestigious than the Monash one. I'm actually not sure about arts degrees, though I think if you really want to go into postgraduate research, a very good option would be the PhB at ANU, if you're willing to go interstate. (http://arts.anu.edu.au/programs/ug/phb/index.asp)

And I don't blame you about the campus stuff, Monash is very ugly it's somewhat demoralising to see the lovely communist-era prison that is the Menzies building blocking out all the sunlight first thing every morning...

monash, ugly?
even been to la trobe?

i've been to both and...
monash isn't the most beautiful campus
compared to melbourne which is amazing looking haha.

[jejak]

I know that before the Melbourne Model, the UoM LLB was seen as slightly more prestigious than the Monash one. I'm actually not sure about arts degrees, though

Of course prestige is all a matter of broad perceptions, but I think that the "prestige gap" between the law degrees of UoM (former) and Monash must have been slight indeed - Wiki notes that "almost all of the senior judicial positions in Victoria" are occupied by Monash grads. So I'm not too concerned to be honest - should I be?

The Arts prestige thing, though, is causing me a lot of grief. As far as I can tell, both unis offer the same majors that I am intending to study, so at least I wouldn't be compromised in that respect. I do recall Peter Singer writing some screed on how all the sackings in the Arts department at UoM was turning the Arts department into a hole, but I don't know a) how much truth there is to this, and b) whether this would realistically affect my chances of being admitted to an MA or PhD. I suspect that o'seas unis would be more familiar with UoM. Of course if my honours thesis is good enough, then I guess this point is moot.

I think if you really want to go into postgraduate research, a very good option would be the PhB at ANU, if you're willing to go interstate.

An excellent suggestion - I have already applied Not likely that I'll get in (10 people admitted per year!), but I'm staying optimistic. Again, though, it's a pity I can't have a law degree on the side with the PhB - it would be nice for some security, just in case I don't turn out to be the next Noam Chomsky...

*sigh* Sometimes I think I overcomplicate things!

I'm assuming it is reasonably possible to go from BA/LLB to MA or PhD though.

And I don't blame you about the campus stuff, Monash is very ugly. it's somewhat demoralising to see the lovely communist-era prison that is the Menzies building blocking out all the sunlight first thing every morning...

Oh my god, don't I know it! To make things worse, I'd be staying at Mannix College, which is very.... brown. As in the decor. When I saw it, I actually retched a little. Whereas Melbourne, and the colleges, are like something out of a film.

monash, ugly?
even been to la trobe?

Wow, La Trobe must be pretty shite then

Thanks for your responses, people. Sorry for whining.