Actuarial studies

[luken93]

A side question from myself - Does having an Actuarial Science major in Commerce without any Professional Accreditation serve any purpose? As in, are there still open jobs for it?

I heard that because you cover Part 1 and 2, you can get a job as a "junior" actuary (you will never be senior/promoted) - but I'd also be interested to hear the answer to this for sure.

[acinod]

Just wondering what breadth are you taking tram? Also what breadth is recommended if I'm majoring actuarial studies at UniMelb?

Since my path is specifically wanting to be an actuary, should I do subjects that are bludgy allowing me to focus more on my actuarial studies, or should I do subjects that will help me in the future as an actuary? Or just subjects that I enjoy?

Also I might consider engineering just in case I don't like actuarial studies. So is it possible to do an engineering breadth sequence along an actuarial studies major? Because apparently I have to take 112.5 points of breadth if I'm doing an Engineering breadth sequence but if I'm pursuing accreditation in Actuarial Studies I will take 75 to 87.5 points of breadth. So how does that work? Or can I just do this: https://handbook.unimelb.edu.au/view/2011/!065XX-BRDS%2B1105#overviewbut Accelerated Maths 1 and 2 instead of the two maths subjects and would have met the prerequisites for M.Eng?

[Stormer]

I know 2 people who have finished a degree in actuarial studies
A friend of mine said you need 45+ spesh to even cope keke ~_~

- raw?

OK, need to work MUCH harder now!

I talked to Dr He last year about actuarial studies and he thought that you would need about a 43 in spech to be able to cope with the workload. Do be aware that this is just a rough guide, if you do nothing but maths and just get a 43 in spech it's not a get out of jail free pass that means you will DEFINITELY get though actuarial studies, it is jut a rough estimate...

Anybody here currently doing it first year? I NEED BUDDIES

right here mate, you doing intro to actuarial?

Yes I am. I'm the dark skinned asian guy you'll see in lectures. How you finding it?

[acinod]

Back to my question, what breadth do actuarial students take?

I might consider Master of Engineering (Mechanical) just in case I give up on actuarial studies after my degree. However the website says:

Commerce students pursuing professional accreditation in accounting or actuarial studies cannot complete the approved engineering subject sequence due to the subject requirements of their chosen discipline.

But is it still possible to get into Master of Engineering after my degree with the appropriate breadth? Can't I simply complete:

Science: 25 points of first year Physics (or equivalent)
Mathematics: 25 points of first-year mathematics, specifically Calculus 2 and Linear Algebra (or equivalent)

Or should I just do easy, fun breadth subjects so I can focus on my major or subjects to help me in the future if I do become an actuary?

[Stormer]

Understanding Society.

[tram]

Just wondering what breadth are you taking tram? Also what breadth is recommended if I'm majoring actuarial studies at UniMelb?

Since my path is specifically wanting to be an actuary, should I do subjects that are bludgy allowing me to focus more on my actuarial studies, or should I do subjects that will help me in the future as an actuary? Or just subjects that I enjoy?

Also I might consider engineering just in case I don't like actuarial studies. So is it possible to do an engineering breadth sequence along an actuarial studies major? Because apparently I have to take 112.5 points of breadth if I'm doing an Engineering breadth sequence but if I'm pursuing accreditation in Actuarial Studies I will take 75 to 87.5 points of breadth. So how does that work? Or can I just do this: https://handbook.unimelb.edu.au/view/2011/!065XX-BRDS%2B1105#overviewbut Accelerated Maths 1 and 2 instead of the two maths subjects and would have met the prerequisites for M.Eng?

You only get three subjects that you have any control over, and they are your three breath subjects, one each year, all the other subjects are locked in for accreditation purposes. So no, i don't think you would have the space for a breath sequence, as for what to choose otherwise, just choose something you are interested in, have a look at the uni breath subjects, in particular a subject that i'm looking to do next semester is the logic subjects, seems quite interesting and not too taxing, have a browse of the handbook and you're sure to find something that interests you...

A side question from myself - Does having an Actuarial Science major in Commerce without any Professional Accreditation serve any purpose? As in, are there still open jobs for it?

I heard that because you cover Part 1 and 2, you can get a job as a "junior" actuary (you will never be senior/promoted) - but I'd also be interested to hear the answer to this for sure.

To anwser your questions tagia, yes, most defintiely. If fact i would argue you have a greater scope for jobs than someone who has just got their accounting major. Granted the NUMBER of jobs for accountants are greater but given your qualifications you do have the scope to move into jobs that require quantitative analysis and/or strategic bents, in all the consulting departments of any of the big four you will definitely find an actuarial department, even in forensic jobs (think something like the melbourne storm scandal or enron (if you don't know what it is google enron, one of the biggest cases of corporate fraud and corruption, something you should know if you intend on being a commerce student)) when they go back to try and rebuild accounting records, they have someone with a actuarial background there as well. I know someone who is working now at the Victorian Fund Management (kinda like an investment bank for the government) who did actuarial at melbourne that then decided to use his skills in a non-traditional role (i.e. not insurance). Granted there is a limited number of jobs and all the work do involve basically the same thing more or less, but that can really be said about ANY profession

[tcg93]

A side question from myself - Does having an Actuarial Science major in Commerce without any Professional Accreditation serve any purpose? As in, are there still open jobs for it?

I heard that because you cover Part 1 and 2, you can get a job as a "junior" actuary (you will never be senior/promoted) - but I'd also be interested to hear the answer to this for sure.

Just as a Monash student, I think taiga means completing a major in Actuarial but not complete sufficient units for entire part I accreditation (as apposed to completing parts I & II and not going further), but I guess trams answer reflects this

[HarveyD]

is there any difference between doing the melbourne course thats been mentioned above
and
majoring in Acturial Studies whilst doing an Eng/Comm Degree at Monash?

[acinod]

About breadth, there was an old thread a few years ago listed recommended breadths for actuarial studies: Evading breadth (sorta..) for Actuarial students of UoM
Basically its just doing 'Business Law', 'Corporate Law' and 'Banking and Finance Law'. However Banking and Finance Law is no longer available for breadth so what would the new recommendation be? Or is it best to just do fun breadth you are interested in rather than these law breadths that I assume are suppose to prepare you for your future career...?

Anyways had a talk with Dr He about actuarial studies last week.

He told us that it is harder than a double degree and that it requires a lot of work compared to other degrees. Sounds like postgrad in disguise... As stated before by tram, he does not recommend anyone that gets below 42 in Specialist Maths to do actuarial studies. Told us a few experiences of his past students that enrolled to actuarial studies (all these kids get like 90+ for spesh and methods combined). One kid was really smart but he was lazy so he changed to finance. Another kid wanted to be a businessman, because his family owned some company overseas or something, so he changed to business. There was also good stories, this kid that got full marks in Uni Maths, Spesh and Methods is in his 2nd year or something and he's finding it fine (obviously...). But dr he said I should be ok so I think I have my mind set on actuarial studies at Melbourne.

BUTTTTTT!!! Apparently the Copland's Scholar Program (which originally required ATAR of 99.0+) merged with the new Chancellor's Scholars Program (which requires an ATAR of 99.9+). So now is there any difference between getting an ATAR of 94.5 and 99.5? They both just give you a CSP with no opportunity for the Copland's Scholarship, right?

Then again, I might need a high ATAR for First In The Family Scholarship...

[tram]

is there any difference between doing the melbourne course thats been mentioned above
and
majoring in Acturial Studies whilst doing an Eng/Comm Degree at Monash?

acturial has no real link to eng.... probably woulnd't recommend it.... it probs help with your quantitative skills but mortality modeal aren't really going to help with eng as far as i can see....

About breadth, there was an old thread a few years ago listed recommended breadths for actuarial studies: Evading breadth (sorta..) for Actuarial students of UoM
Basically its just doing 'Business Law', 'Corporate Law' and 'Banking and Finance Law'. However Banking and Finance Law is no longer available for breadth so what would the new recommendation be? Or is it best to just do fun breadth you are interested in rather than these law breadths that I assume are suppose to prepare you for your future career...?

Anyways had a talk with Dr He about actuarial studies last week.

He told us that it is harder than a double degree and that it requires a lot of work compared to other degrees. Sounds like postgrad in disguise... As stated before by tram, he does not recommend anyone that gets below 42 in Specialist Maths to do actuarial studies. Told us a few experiences of his past students that enrolled to actuarial studies (all these kids get like 90+ for spesh and methods combined). One kid was really smart but he was lazy so he changed to finance. Another kid wanted to be a businessman, because his family owned some company overseas or something, so he changed to business. There was also good stories, this kid that got full marks in Uni Maths, Spesh and Methods is in his 2nd year or something and he's finding it fine (obviously...). But dr he said I should be ok so I think I have my mind set on actuarial studies at Melbourne.

BUTTTTTT!!! Apparently the Copland's Scholar Program (which originally required ATAR of 99.0+) merged with the new Chancellor's Scholars Program (which requires an ATAR of 99.9+). So now is there any difference between getting an ATAR of 94.5 and 99.5? They both just give you a CSP with no opportunity for the Copland's Scholarship, right?

Then again, I might need a high ATAR for First In The Family Scholarship...

OMG i know brendan.... is that is the brendan who i think it is.... that's interesting.... didn't know he was ex-vn....

As for breath, i did PBL and it was ok... will defintiely be choosing a very non-commerce breath next year... will need the circuit breaker.... Defs pick something you are interested in, you don't want your breath to be taxing in the sense you have to force yourself to do something because it is meant to purely be something you enjoy...

haha, yeah, Dr He and his actuarial stories, you know the first time he told us them i was like...psht a bunch of idiots that put themselves throught that... (that was in year 10) yet now i'm doing it haha.

As for a high enter, there are plenty of reason to still aim for a high enter

1) Do remember that you get a guranteed full fee place in any postgrad (more or less) if you want it if you get 99+, granted it cos t a fair bit but with fee-help it's a decent backup...

2) It will help in getting interships/into programs in 1/2nd year which are very useful and good to do

3) Pride/self-fufilment/all those other intangible things

4) You never know, tbh i knew about the copland program and wanted to get in it so bad but didn't think i'd be able to get in, you never know, stuff happens...

5) Depending on demand they '99.9' rule is flexible, e.g. i got in (and so did at least 3 other coplanders) with 99.80, so don't count yourself out just yet..

Also the copland scholar was never for ALL people who got 99+, it was/is for the top 15 students (which i'm positive was stated in the commerce brochure), but just one of the requirements that made you ELIGIBLE was you had to get 99+ (i.e. in case of like no-one applying i guess)

Having said that i struggled for ages with this concept and i know at times it feel infuriating that all this work could be for nothing, at least in the sense you could have done much much less and still be in effectively the same position as others who scraped in and it demotivated me several times throughout the year. But hey, that's life, there will always be people who are the same if not a lot better off than you, though not a whole lot of effort on their part (think contacts......)....

[acinod]

As for breath, i did PBL and it was ok... will defintiely be choosing a very non-commerce breath next year... will need the circuit breaker.... Defs pick something you are interested in, you don't want your breath to be taxing in the sense you have to force yourself to do something because it is meant to purely be something you enjoy...

haha, yeah, Dr He and his actuarial stories, you know the first time he told us them i was like...psht a bunch of idiots that put themselves throught that... (that was in year 10) yet now i'm doing it haha.

As for a high enter, there are plenty of reason to still aim for a high enter

1) Do remember that you get a guranteed full fee place in any postgrad (more or less) if you want it if you get 99+, granted it cos t a fair bit but with fee-help it's a decent backup...

2) It will help in getting interships/into programs in 1/2nd year which are very useful and good to do

3) Pride/self-fufilment/all those other intangible things

4) You never know, tbh i knew about the copland program and wanted to get in it so bad but didn't think i'd be able to get in, you never know, stuff happens...

5) Depending on demand they '99.9' rule is flexible, e.g. i got in (and so did at least 3 other coplanders) with 99.80, so don't count yourself out just yet..

Also the copland scholar was never for ALL people who got 99+, it was/is for the top 15 students (which i'm positive was stated in the commerce brochure), but just one of the requirements that made you ELIGIBLE was you had to get 99+ (i.e. in case of like no-one applying i guess)

Having said that i struggled for ages with this concept and i know at times it feel infuriating that all this work could be for nothing, at least in the sense you could have done much much less and still be in effectively the same position as others who scraped in and it demotivated me several times throughout the year. But hey, that's life, there will always be people who are the same if not a lot better off than you, though not a whole lot of effort on their part (think contacts......)....

Thanks a lot tram for the helpful info! I guess I'll just pick some fun breadth to maybe take the stress away from actuarial studies haha

And thanks for clearing up the info about the Copland scholarship, I've always thought of the 99+ as a clearly-in or something but I guess most important is that they take 15 students. Seems quite hard now considering such a low number of places. But for this year tram, do you know the lowest ATAR that made it into the Copland Scholar? Or was 99.8 the lowest...

[tram]

Thanks a lot tram for the helpful info! I guess I'll just pick some fun breadth to maybe take the stress away from actuarial studies haha

And thanks for clearing up the info about the Copland scholarship, I've always thought of the 99+ as a clearly-in or something but I guess most important is that they take 15 students. Seems quite hard now considering such a low number of places. But for this year tram, do you know the lowest ATAR that made it into the Copland Scholar? Or was 99.8 the lowest...

haha, no problem, yeah, go to open day and find out about what else is on offer this sunday-the weather will be good thank god, but just saying, don't expect to get any indication the lowest atar you'll need to get a scholarship, they're very careful about giving advice about the atar required because they don't want to 'gurantee' you something that turns out to be different because of demand, but yeah 99.80 was the lowest anyone got in on and i don't think that will change much, if anything it might go up cos people are likely to be attracted by the new chancellors scholars program...

[pi]

http://melbuniblog.com/2012/09/30/bcom-majors-v-actuarial-studies/