Science/Law

[appianway]

Is it worth it? Where's best to do it?

I'm considering going into straight science, politics, policy making, constitutional law or other related fields, if that helps.

[vexx]

Is it worth it? Where's best to do it?

I'm considering going into straight science, politics, policy making, constitutional law or other related fields, if that helps.

Do you even find law interesting? Look at what you study... I looked it up and i almost died during one of the lectures they did. But hey i'm not into the humanities.
Don't just do it because you got the score for it and dont want to waste your perfect (or close to) score on just science..

[appianway]

Hmm, I don't know if I'm interested in law. English has always been my strength, and I've always liked trying to manipulate arguments... my Dad thinks that I'd be good at constitutional law, and I tend to agree with him. I'd do a double degree though just to keep my options open - the law component also stops me from being locked into science too, I guess.

[IntoTheNewWorld]

if you're not sure there's always the JD

[appianway]

I don't really want to do JD though - I haven't heard positive things...

[ninwa]

Just out of interest, what do you think constitutional law involves? What area of it are you interested in exactly?

There's no denying you are very bright and would probably do very well in law as you are clearly a motivated and organised person.

However, TBH, I think you would be wasting your talents there. Just because you'd do well in it isn't a reason to waste 5 years of your life doing it. Once you get past the initial hurdle of HOLY SHIT I DON'T KNOW WTF IS GOING ON law isn't actually that difficult.

That said if you are set on this I have a friend who is doing science/law and doing very well, so if you have any questions I'd be happy to ask her for you.

[appianway]

I don't know too much about constitutional law; I'm only in high school. However, it seems to involve a lot of problem solving and manipulation - I presume that as the field's based on the study of the constitution, the cases are based on how something fundamentally adheres to one document... which interests me, to be honest. I like manipulating arguments, although as I've mentioned, I don't know much about the field. It's a bit difficult to know much about law as a year 12 student.

@ninwa, why do you think it'd be wasting my "talents"? I'm not so interested in pursuing law for the title or for the degree, but for the ability to work in a political sphere and the potential of working as a lawyer (I'm not sure what exactly that would involve, but I can guess). I'm just not sure whether I like the idea of being locked into science - English has usually been my best subject anyway, and I'm starting to question a career which is as esoteric as physics.

[vexx]

^ appianway, i also have liked the idea of law as i love problem solving/manipulation and using 'acting' to convey an argument (i love public speaking, the only part of english i liked) so i understand why law is appealing, but studying law is completely different to this as i was saying.
There is many many many things to memorise that involve boring (no offense to people who are interested in it) legal laws and rules and all that crap i have no idea about and would hate to learn. I think you would be happier doing something a bit more exciting for you, not wasting time memorising a bunch of useless information for you.

BUt who knows, you may like doing law... Just saying you should look into it more before you commit.
Ninwa you know more than me, so i could be wrong;) maybe law is more than what i've seen when i looked into it..

[ninwa]

Well, yes, nearly all law subjects involve problem solving and manipulation. But nothing in Australian law really adheres to one anything. The constitution is rather vague, incomplete and sometimes downright self-contradictory, so you'll be studying many cases giving different interpretations.

Yeah, there's also going to be lots of memorisation from now on as the law faculty is gradually getting rid of open-book exams. You will need to memorise a lot of cases and legal principles - some of which will be useless by the time you actually practice because the law is constantly changing. What you are actually spending 4 years doing is learning to solve problems.

BTW I'm not disputing your abilities. I'm fairly certain someone of your academic calibre would do very well. I said you'd be wasting your talents because I've always pictured you developing some enormous advancements in science later on. But I guess I don't really know you at all, so I can't back that up with anything. It's just a feeling. And a bit of cynicalness. I've never felt that doing well at law involved any talent whatsoever. But that's just me! So I'll shutup about that now.

[AzureBlue]

I don't really want to do JD though - I haven't heard positive things...

What's wrong with the JD?

[tram]

I personally think that sicience law would be a very good combination especially given your obvious talents for both physics and english. It also opens the doors wide wide open in terms of career opportunities, as opposed to straight science.

and yea, y wouldn't you concider the jd??

[appianway]

I know that if I do a straight undergraduate science degree first, I'll close off all other options. It's just how I am. I also don't really like the sound of the JD as I've heard that the tutorial class sizes are absolutely huge.

Hmm, thanks for the advice. After thinking about it more, I've realised that I'd really be pursuing law to keep my options open - it's closely related to a field that I'm very interested in, and I've been questioning where my interests and talents truly lie (I really do wonder if I've convinced myself I'm good at science because of olympiad and my VCE results last year). I've been looking for a combined program which allows students to focus on their first degree whilst taking a few law subjects initially (just to get a taste of law), and the only one I can find is USyd. Any other suggestions?

[Russ]

I also don't really like the sound of the JD as I've heard that the tutorial class sizes are absolutely huge.

Sorry for how this will sound, but this is a terrible reason to dismiss a course. Straight science degree at UoM, chemistry 101 will have tutorials in a lecture theatre with dozens of people. But if you're opposed to graduate JD because you'd never be able to go from science to that, that's fair enough. I'd never be able to apply for the JD, even though I'm qualified to.

That said though, this

I've been looking for a combined program which allows students to focus on their first degree whilst taking a few law subjects initially

sounds like the melbourne model. You can do law breadth I guess, whilst you focus on your BSc. But then again, a double degree at Monash is pretty impressive.

[AzureBlue]

Yeah, the Melbourne Model would allow you to do law breadth subjects alongside your BSc majoring in physics but since you don't want to do the JD, then probably go to a uni that offers Bsc/LLB.

[ninwa]

I'm pretty sure for science/law first years, you take 3 science and 1 law subject. Or at least that option's available to you. There's no number of law subjects you HAVE to take in any particular year. Just enrol in whatever you want and you'll get your degree once you've completed the requirements.

That said, the two first year law subjects you'll do is NOTHING like what the rest of the course is like (it's basically an introduction to legal reasoning, writing and research. Also statutory interpretation, history of the common law system, the structure of the legal system in Australia etc.)
So it's not going to be a good indication of whether or not you'll enjoy law.

Also re: tute sizes - in the LLB they're like 25 people. It doesn't sound like much but when your tute marks depend on how much you're contributing to the discussion, having to compete with 24 other people who also want the full marks gets a little... tiring.
Lecture sizes can be anywhere from 50 - 200. That's why we have tutes and consultation hours so you can ask questions without the rest of the class wanting to shoot you in the face for wasting their precious time.

After thinking about it more, I've realised that I'd really be pursuing law to keep my options open - it's closely related to a field that I'm very interested in

That's what I would say at least 1/3 of law students (including myself!) are doing (i.e. keeping options open). Nothing wrong with that.