vce lote system completely screwed??

[iffets12345]

How is it not through their own merits? That holds about as much water as saying that it's unfair that a kid has his mother read to him every night while a mother of an asian kid can't even speak english

Yes, it would be unfair to expect the "asian kid" to be fluent in English if they didn't grow up in an English speaking environment.

12 years of education in an English system isn't good enough?
You can't tell me little preppies already segregate themselves into asian and non asian speak grps.

[mark_alec]

So in your perfect society, we should all have our heads cleaned out so that we could each have an equal footing in life?

Irrelevant. I'm just saying that with regards to languages, there exists a reasonably large amount of unfairness with regards to native speakers.

[mark_alec]

12 years of education in an English system isn't good enough?
You can't tell me little preppies already segregate themselves into asian and non asian speak grps.

I interpreted it as a recent migrant who came from a family that didn't speak English. But yes, if they were born here or came here young, then I don't think that the mother reading English will have a strong effect on their English skills.

[IntoTheNewWorld]

So in your perfect society, we should all have our heads cleaned out so that we could each have an equal footing in life?

People just find it unfair that French, unlike many other languages, does not have an FL stream, which means that natives who have come to Australia very recently i.e a year or so ago can get marks that aren't really fair as such.

I don't see anything wrong with banning them from taking the subject if numbers are insufficient to make another stream. It's not like they're learning anything from it.

[Cianyx]

^If people really do have a problem with it, they are always free to y'know, go to France and own them at English. On a side note, other languages were brought up as well.

Also, you didn't answer my question before. How is it that they did not learn through their own merits?

[mark_alec]

^If people really do have a problem with it, they are always free to y'know, go to France and own them at English.

This is really a rather ridiculous proposition, nobody is saying that we should try to one-up anybody and go "pwn them with our leet english skillz".

Also, you didn't answer my question before. How is it that they did not learn through their own merits?

I don't consider being literate in a native language to be a useful metric in differentiating intelligences of humans. Almost everyone on Earth can speak a language, and for those who live in first or developing world countries, almost all are literate.

[iffets12345]

12 years of education in an English system isn't good enough?
You can't tell me little preppies already segregate themselves into asian and non asian speak grps.

I interpreted it as a recent migrant who came from a family that didn't speak English. But yes, if they were born here or came here young, then I don't think that the mother reading English will have a strong effect on their English skills.

If they're recent migrant, they get to do ESL, so there at least is some attempt at balance.... dude.

[Cianyx]

The first statement was a joke.

Aside from the fact that we're talking about being literate in two languages, how is this any different than being brought up in a household where children are being exposed to say, more maths equations/discussions?

[mark_alec]

The difference being that fluency in a language is something that *everyone* will pick up if they are exposed to the environment at a young age. Music/maths/geography are not.

[Cianyx]

Fluency in a language occurs through constant exposure. Similar to music/maths/geography, if you constantly expose kids to said topics, they become better at it. The only unfairness is that kids here do not experience the same degree of exposure, but you can hardly fault migrants or the system for that.