Latin what a joke of a mark up...!

[eeps]

Definitely.. LOTEs and Latin in particular, are bloody hard to get your head around.

I've been learning Latin since year 7, and no, it's still not second nature to me.

Glad that there is no oral component in Latin.. because if there was, I would be struggling so bad!

Same here. I'm not the greatest at orals. I used the Cambridge Latin Books, through Years 7-10. All we do in Latin is translate unseens/passages (Aeneid), grammar sheets and vocab tests now.

[werdna]

Definitely.. LOTEs and Latin in particular, are bloody hard to get your head around.

I've been learning Latin since year 7, and no, it's still not second nature to me.

Glad that there is no oral component in Latin.. because if there was, I would be struggling so bad!

Same here. I'm not the greatest at orals. I used the Cambridge Latin Books, through Years 7-10. All we do in Latin is translate unseens/passages (Aeneid), grammar sheets and vocab tests now.

That's exactly what we do in class too... are we supposed to be doing anything else? :S

[pi]

Definitely.. LOTEs and Latin in particular, are bloody hard to get your head around.

I've been learning Latin since year 7, and no, it's still not second nature to me.

Glad that there is no oral component in Latin.. because if there was, I would be struggling so bad!

Same here. I'm not the greatest at orals. I used the Cambridge Latin Books, through Years 7-10. All we do in Latin is translate unseens/passages (Aeneid), grammar sheets and vocab tests now.

I used the Oxford course (a story about someone called Horatia and Quintis if my memory is right) in yrs 7 and 8 and failed miserably (40% in yr 8 final -pass by VELS though!). In addition, I also despised all the constant vocab tests, translations and having to learn about 10 different cases (nominative, accusative... um... etc.). I consequently dropped it when I changed schools.

Latin is definitely the hardest language subject I have ever attempted, made even harder because there is no oral component (I find it easy to remember languages orally) because it is a dead-language.

[eeps]

That's exactly what we do in class too... are we supposed to be doing anything else? :S

Not that I'm aware of. My Latin 1/2 exam is on Wednesday - it's comprised of translating an unseen passage(s), comprehension questions on passages, grammar and vocab on passages, scansion and one full unseen translation, all in 90 minutes - my school tries to replicate the actual VCAA exam.

Which is good and bad. =\

[vexx]

Definitely.. LOTEs and Latin in particular, are bloody hard to get your head around.

I've been learning Latin since year 7, and no, it's still not second nature to me.

Glad that there is no oral component in Latin.. because if there was, I would be struggling so bad!

Same here. I'm not the greatest at orals. I used the Cambridge Latin Books, through Years 7-10. All we do in Latin is translate unseens/passages (Aeneid), grammar sheets and vocab tests now.

I used the Oxford course (a story about someone called Horatia and Quintis if my memory is right) in yrs 7 and 8 and failed miserably (40% in yr 8 final -pass by VELS though!). In addition, I also despised all the constant vocab tests, translations and having to learn about 10 different cases (nominative, accusative... um... etc.). I consequently dropped it when I changed schools.

Latin is definitely the hardest language subject I have ever attempted, made even harder because there is no oral component (I find it easy to remember languages orally) because it is a dead-language.

Latin is one of the easiest language subjects actually, considering all it is about is reading. One can become fluent at reading Latin in a few months, but to get fluent at writing and speakng a language does take far, far, far longer.
Considering there are about ~1500 words to memorise in Latin that make up roughly 85% of all Latin texts, compared some languages being well into the thousands for approaching the 80% of all texts.. Latin is more about identifying the root word and understanding the sentence structure, there is a very small vocab that you need to understand well which is a very good thing if learnt correctly.

However, the analysis component of Latin makes it a more difficult subject, but the actual language part is very simple. I'm currently self-teaching Latin out of interest, and it is not too difficult to be honest to learn - since the whole grammar aspects are not exactly important/required to be able to read fluently.. They just help with writing, etc.

Anyone can learn to be fluent in reading Latin, but due to the range of things required for all other languages not everyone can be fluent at other languages.

Latin is very competitive though, still that does not mean it is too hard to achieve the state average grade (~47 after scaling), there are so many people who just do it and don't do any work assuming they get the score.. Some get into the 30's perhaps out of luck whereas others fail miserably.. Work well and Latin is an easy 45+.

[binders]

if you're finding latin easy, i'd recommend you take up french, italian or ancient greek. the former two are simpler than latin as far as achieving reading competency goes, and the later has the same advantages you've shown latin to have.  by the time school starts, you could be have reading fluency in 4 languages - a skill that will stay with you for life.

[vexx]

if you're finding latin easy, i'd recommend you take up french, italian or ancient greek. the former two are simpler than latin as far as achieving reading competency goes, and the later has the same advantages you've shown latin to have.  by the time school starts, you could be have reading fluency in 4 languages - a skill that will stay with you for life.

Yeah one could definitely learn to read multiple languages at once especially if similar as Italian/French are.. Though learning a new alphabet like ancient greek will take far longer then just the summer unlike the familiar characters used in Latin..

Btw, did you do latin/French this year ? How did you go! Or is this for 2011?

[binders]

actually, learning the alphabet only takes a couple of days. i did the winter ancient greek intensive at melbourne uni this year and you cover the alphabet in one morning. the whole course is 12 days, and you cover 1 semester's greek.

i did french & latin in vce a couple of years ago, and i've forgotten most of the french thankfully 

[vexx]

actually, learning the alphabet only takes a couple of days. i did the winter ancient greek intensive at melbourne uni this year and you cover the alphabet in one morning. the whole course is 12 days, and you cover 1 semester's greek.

i did french & latin in vce a couple of years ago, and i've forgotten most of the french thankfully 

oh wow, that's cool then melb uni intensives seem quite awesome!
haha, well you seemed to do quite well, didn't enjoy them??

[eeps]

I wouldn't go as far to say it's the easiest language to learn. Latin in Years 7-10 are quite easy, but as with any subject, it gets harder - the introduction of new tenses and grammar makes it more complex.

Latin is one of the easiest language subjects actually, considering all it is about is reading. One can become fluent at reading Latin in a few months, but to get fluent at writing and speakng a language does take far, far, far longer.
Considering there are about ~1500 words to memorise in Latin that make up roughly 85% of all Latin texts, compared some languages being well into the thousands for approaching the 80% of all texts.. Latin is more about identifying the root word and understanding the sentence structure, there is a very small vocab that you need to understand well which is a very good thing if learnt correctly.

However, the analysis component of Latin makes it a more difficult subject, but the actual language part is very simple. I'm currently self-teaching Latin out of interest, and it is not too difficult to be honest to learn - since the whole grammar aspects are not exactly important/required to be able to read fluently.. They just help with writing, etc.

Anyone can learn to be fluent in reading Latin, but due to the range of things required for all other languages not everyone can be fluent at other languages.

Latin is very competitive though, still that does not mean it is too hard to achieve the state average grade (~47 after scaling), there are so many people who just do it and don't do any work assuming they get the score.. Some get into the 30's perhaps out of luck whereas others fail miserably.. Work well and Latin is an easy 45+.

It's not so much reading, rather comprehending of what the text is about - the historical context of passages such as Virgil: Aeneid. That was tested on my 1/2 exam and the same goes for the VCAA exams. The amount of tables, that need to be learnt makes it difficult as well. Another component of Latin that we've had to do is to translate English into Latin - that's incredibly difficult - it's not formulaic in anyway and the word order of sentences is also very important.

In my time, I have never been tested based on reading Latin. By Year 12, you are expected to comprehend, translate and do scansion of passages as well as an unseen translation all in 90 minutes. If it wasn't for the amount of students doing Latin and the students doing it (who are generally bright) - the scaling wouldn't be +16. Also, I wouldn't say Latin not having orals makes it any easier - there are other aspects of the Latin course that are probably just has hard as doing orals. Makes you think.

IMO the hardiest part of Latin would be unseen translations. VCAA and teachers alike throw in tricky grammar bits in the passage of which most students aren't likely to pick up.

[vexx]

^ Yes, if one was required to know how to translate into Latin (hence needing to know the tables), it would be a very hard language to do as a year 12 subject. But in reality, this isn't tested on the exam. So if one was to completely ignore this aspect (hence failing a SAC.. spoke to a Latin teacher who said there was only one on it), and so focus only on reading (actually the easiest part, if done right... as i'm learning to do it now), and on the (agreed) difficult aspects of the interpretation, getting 30+ raw is not difficult..

[funkyducky]

actually, learning the alphabet only takes a couple of days. i did the winter ancient greek intensive at melbourne uni this year and you cover the alphabet in one morning. the whole course is 12 days, and you cover 1 semester's greek.

i did french & latin in vce a couple of years ago, and i've forgotten most of the french thankfully 

True, alphabets aren't hard to learn.
I learnt the entire hiragana syllabary in ~4 hours, and it's much longer than the roman alphabet. Interpreting the symbols of a language as sounds is the easy part, giving those sounds some meaning is far more difficult (which is why a languages like French and German, which are so similar to English, can still be considered more difficult at VCE level than languages with non-roman alphabets, eg. Chinese, Korean and Japanese SL)

[WonderBunny]

vexx, you could not be more wrong about the Latin exam. The exam is marked very strictly, and they demand complete accuracy in the unseen translation. A general sense of what the author means will not score any marks. Those tables you claim not to need to know? They are vital for an accurate translation. If a verb is in the subjunctive you need to know that and understand why in order to translate it properly.
The method of study you talk about (skipping grammar and just getting the sense) is fine for simple reading in modern languages, but will not work for a proper understanding of Latin texts. Some texts have sentences that go on for a page. The only way to tell what is going on in the sentence is to know the grammar.
This is just a warning of what to expect if you study Latin.

[eeps]

The exam is marked very strictly, and they demand complete accuracy in the unseen translation. A general sense of what the author means will not score any marks. Those tables you claim not to need to know? They are vital for an accurate translation. If a verb is in the subjunctive you need to know that and understand why in order to translate it properly.
The method of study you talk about (skipping grammar and just getting the sense) is fine for simple reading in modern languages, but will not work for a proper understanding of Latin texts. Some texts have sentences that go on for a page. The only way to tell what is going on in the sentence is to know the grammar.
This is just a warning of what to expect if you study Latin.

Seconded everything said here.

[werdna]

WonderBunny, do you do VCE Latin?