Latin what a joke of a mark up...!

[EvangelionZeta]

Latin is far to high..
Considering you don't even have to know how to write anything in Latin for the exam, nor speak it for that matter.
It's simply comprehension which can be easily trained if one does not rely on their school - far more effective to self-teach to a level that would enable high marks on anything reading related, though the essay could still be problem for some..

The offshoot is, the stuff you're comprehending and translating in Latin is FAR more complex than in any other language.  Try reading an English translation of The Iliad, or Shakespeare.  That's what you're dealing with in the Latin exam.

[vexx]

Latin is far to high..
Considering you don't even have to know how to write anything in Latin for the exam, nor speak it for that matter.
It's simply comprehension which can be easily trained if one does not rely on their school - far more effective to self-teach to a level that would enable high marks on anything reading related, though the essay could still be problem for some..

The offshoot is, the stuff you're comprehending and translating in Latin is FAR more complex than in any other language.  Try reading an English translation of The Iliad, or Shakespeare.  That's what you're dealing with in the Latin exam.

Yeah i understand that.
Though, I was considering doing an extra few subjects next year where Latin was one of them. The tutor/teacher i was going to have, was going to teach me how to read latin Fluently (she is fluent in all aspects of Latin and has been teaching for a long time) and said that in a few months with her following her course i would be able to be at a level similar to that required on the exam as it is not too hard to learn.. since i'm purely learning to identify roots and their purpose in the sentence, and then after learning to interpret more difficult works like the ones i study.. basically a lot of ROTE learning which i'm quite good at doing :p
the problem with teaching it via school is you don't learn in a very 'effective' way how to read, though, i'd probably fail a SAC that requires me to write in it.. but thats fine, due to the exam not requiring it.

regardless, we all have our opinions, but i know that if one decided to take the time to learn to be fluent at reading a language, it is far easier then learning to speak/write the language (passive vs active memory)

though, the cutoffs are quite high for Latin. so getting a in the 40s raw is ridiculously difficult, but thats not to say that getting 30 is, as it is the average and 30-35 is very achievable for ANYONE, that learns how to read by more intensive means than school.

ha, i dont do latin, just she has been teaching so many people her course and so she would know best.. feel free to argue with her if you don't wish to believe this :p
i just trust what she is saying, though the only other person that did her course i spoke to was more-or-less a language 'genius' that did 2 entire days to finish her course.

[binders]

hang on, so you're saying that someone took two days to become fluent enough at reading to pass the vce latin exam? is the teacher's name claire? can i have her number?

[vexx]

hang on, so you're saying that someone took two days to become fluent enough at reading to pass the vce latin exam? is the teacher's name claire? can i have her number?

that girl was a genius, so its extremely unlikely that it will be possible.
to get to the level of doing 'average' on that vce exam, as one cannot fail an exam, you need about 60% (30 raw, or 47 scaled), and that would take a couple of months with working with her given you are willing to put in the work.
her name is not claire, the teacher is fairly known in the polyglot community for her teaching on an international level (she speaks a large variety of languages fluently including latin), if you wish i can send you details of hers?

[binders]

yeah, i'd be interested, thanks.
getting to exam pass level after a couple of months  isn't that impressive - the uni intensive does it in 6 weeks and people score in the 90s by then. but if she can structure a course than can be comprehended in two days, that's impressive.

[vexx]

yeah, i'd be interested, thanks.
getting to exam pass level after a couple of months  isn't that impressive - the uni intensive does it in 6 weeks and people score in the 90s by then. but if she can structure a course than can be comprehended in two days, that's impressive.

yeah of course you can do it in a quick time.
but lets be reasonable here, you wouldn't want to be spending hours a day (maybe you do), rather spread it out, also easier to let your mind process it over a longer period.
i'll send you a message now.

[thushan]

About Latin - it's not about whether the subject is easy or hard at all, merely the level of competition. Maths Methods is relatively easy (NOT saying that it is easy) to score well on the exams and SACs (apart from this year) yet 30 --> 35-36 or thereabouts. Biology is a hard subject to score well on the exams (yes, you can drop like 14 marks over both exams and still get a 50), yet 30 --> 30.

Suppose (hypothetically) we were doing Latin 3/4 against a bunch of Derrick Has (ok he didn't do Latin, but say someone of his calibre). Remembering study score is purely rank, no matter how well we did, unless we were better than these Derrick Has, we'd be looking at study scores of around 15-20, even though we are extremely competent.

The real situation is that Latin students ARE up against a bunch of unusually talented students. A really competent student who could get say 40 in all his/her other subjects would most likely get maximum 24 for Latin, because of the level of competition. Hence I say that this scaling is justified.

As for the government's 5 points bonus, I am quite indifferent about it, but for consistency the government should give Latin the 5 point bonus.

[Russ]

As for the government's 5 points bonus, I am quite indifferent about it, but for consistency the government should give Latin the 5 point bonus.

I never got it. The whole point of the scaling system is to make subjects statistically equivalent, and then you have the government throwing in an extra 5 points with no consideration for it...

[eeps]

Suppose (hypothetically) we were doing Latin 3/4 against a bunch of Derrick Has (ok he didn't do Latin, but say someone of his calibre). Remembering study score is purely rank, no matter how well we did, unless we were better than these Derrick Has, we'd be looking at study scores of around 15-20, even though we are extremely competent.

The real situation is that Latin students ARE up against a bunch of unusually talented students. A really competent student who could get say 40 in all his/her other subjects would most likely get maximum 24 for Latin, because of the level of competition. Hence I say that this scaling is justified.

That's very true. Summed up very well.

[Ghost!]

I never got it. The whole point of the scaling system is to make subjects statistically equivalent, and then you have the government throwing in an extra 5 points with no consideration for it...

That's just the Government making it clear they want a more bilingual nation, it isn't a disadvantage to any one not learning a language.

[stonecold]

I never got it. The whole point of the scaling system is to make subjects statistically equivalent, and then you have the government throwing in an extra 5 points with no consideration for it...

That's just the Government making it clear they want a more bilingual nation, it isn't a disadvantage to any one not learning a language.

How is it not a disadvantage?  As long as they get a 30, they get like extra 5 points on their aggregate for nothing.

Total joke.  This 'scheme' encourages the take up of LOTE's for all the wrong reasons.

Moreover, I just love how UQ and probably other Uni's as well will bump down the ATAR requirement for their courses if an applicant has completed a LOTE, because hey, French is highly relevant to Science and Medicine.

Edit: And Australia will never be a bilingual nation, as we are far too culturally prejudiced.  People who speak another language are forced into the stone age by listening to the radio if they wan't something in another tongue.  Free TV offers them nothing other than SBS news and world movies.

And the fact that probably around 25% of citizens advocate movements such as this, if not more, clearly demonstrates many Australians position when it comes to languages other than English.

[Ghost!]

How is it not a disadvantage?  As long as they get a 30, they get like extra 5 points on their aggregate for nothing.

Total joke.  This 'scheme' encourages the take up of LOTE's for all the wrong reasons.

Moreover, I just love how UQ and probably other Uni's as well will bump down the ATAR requirement for their courses if an applicant has completed a LOTE, because hey, French is highly relevant to Science and Medicine.

Edit: And Australia will never be a bilingual nation, as we are far too culturally prejudiced.  People who speak another language are forced into the stone age by listening to the radio if they wan't something in another tongue.  Free TV offers them nothing other than SBS news and world movies.

And the fact that probably around 25% of citizens advocate movements such as this, if not more, clearly demonstrates many Australians position when it comes to languages other than English.

Still don't really see how it affects students not taking a language.

Australia will ultimately become bilingual or face extinction, when Governing becomes more international and different super powers emerge over the planet developing the ability to deeply converse with multiple cultures is going to be required.

And don't worry to much about backwards facing bogan/hicks/fuckwits, they occur in every culture on earth and never go anywhere.

[Russ]

I never got it. The whole point of the scaling system is to make subjects statistically equivalent, and then you have the government throwing in an extra 5 points with no consideration for it...

That's just the Government making it clear they want a more bilingual nation, it isn't a disadvantage to any one not learning a language.

It is pretty much the definition of disadvantage when you have students directly competing against each other, where some get a boost to their aggregate beyond what is statistically appropriate...

[werdna]

What is this aggregate boost of 5 points? :S

[eeps]

What is this aggregate boost of 5 points? :S

Yeah, same here. I do Latin, yet I have no idea what this "5 points boost" is - I was never told of this. =\