English affects the final atar score so much.

[charmanderp]

In many cases, developing your English skills can assist you in other subjects to. I'm doing 4 essay writing subjects (Lit, English, Global Politics and Media) and having studied Lit 3/4 in Year 11 gives me a massive advantage over my peers in the other three, even if their knowledge of the course is better than mine. I'm sure this extends to university also, where no matter what degree you're in, you'll have to write high quality essays throughout the extent of your academic career.

[chiral]

English does make a massive difference!!!

i only realized when we got our scores and my friend who did ESL got a 50 (although her English was the same as mine) and I got 37. It made a huge difference atar wise, and ESL compared to english is soooooooooooo much easier to do better in. There are heaps of people who do ESL although they should be doing english so it's not fair

I honestly believe ESL criteria needs to be changed and there should be stricter regulations on it. I know someone who was doing english in year 12 but changed to ESL (and he was allowed! ) because he didn't like his scores...

[golden]

Yes, they *can* have an advantage. But so what? Work at it.

This. In my opinion, English is the BEST subject to improve in if you are willing to put in the hard yards. And at the end of the year, when you get an English score that you once thought was way out of your reach (whether it be 35, 44 like me, or 50), it'll be one of the best feelings you'll ever have academically and the perfect way to round off your schooling

This.

And that point about essays Stick - I'll concur. Your first essays in say end of year 11 or start of year 12 may not be THAT good - but you improve dramatically the more essays you write. Personally - last year in EngLang - I wasn't too happy with my essays at the start of the year, I was scoring around the 11.5-12 (out of 15) at the start of the year then started stressing coz I was worried that I couldn't improve. Even at the middle of the year I was still scoring around the 12-13 range. By the week before the exam I was consistently getting 14's. So yeah, you improve heaps throughout the year - just keep writing essay after essay after essay!

As for the number...I think I wrote around 20-25ish, but you can write way more than that especially with English (coz it's all essays). In the paper there was a Melb High dude who had written 80, and there was a guy in my school (mchli) who wrote in excess of 100 if I recall correctly. HAVING SAID THAT, 80-100 essays aren't necessary, but I'm just showing that you have plenty of essays to practice and improve!

Wow I probably wrote about 30 essays for the whole of year 11 and year 12 combined.

With regard to the first post:
It's good that English has to be in the top 4. How screwed would the system be if that were not the case. Those who do the 'Asian 5' would have their scores unfairly added because in effect it is 4 subjects in the top 4 that are super scaling. Those who do humanities subjects will get (EVEN MORE) disadvantaged.

English does make a massive difference!!!

i only realized when we got our scores and my friend who did ESL got a 50 (although her English was the same as mine) and I got 37. It made a huge difference atar wise, and ESL compared to english is soooooooooooo much easier to do better in. There are heaps of people who do ESL although they should be doing english so it's not fair

I honestly believe ESL criteria needs to be changed and there should be stricter regulations on it. I know someone who was doing english in year 12 but changed to ESL (and he was allowed! ) because he didn't like his scores...

Why didn't you just do ESL then? If you weren't allowed then there must be some decent regulation in place.

[charmanderp]

The main obstacle for most people in their way of doing well in English isn't a lack of writing experience or ability. It's the fact that they don't bother to analyse and in turn understand the texts which are the subject of their essay. And even more so, they rely too much on their teacher's interpretations and those of study guides, rather than actually doing any work themselves.

What you'll find is that most of the elite 'Asian 5' students do extremely well in English, even if they're not so talented at it, because they apply themselves the right way.

[nisha]

who need angrezi when you can speak in tongue of the taxi driver.

I like you. That comment made me smile. I have a kindred spirit.

Jokes. I actually love english, even though it is quite dry in relation to Literature. But, its quite formulaic, and as a math/science student, thats all you can ask for.

[charmanderp]

The Reading and Responding and Language Analysis essay structures could be considered quite formulaic, but there's a freedom in Creating and Presenting that isn't available in Literature. It's not so much that English is dry, rather that most Literature classes include students whom are more advanced in English and more conductive towards class discussion and hence the teachers can run their lesons more liberally. And some of the English texts are a bit boring!

[thushan]

who need angrezi when you can speak in tongue of the taxi driver.

I like you. That comment made me smile. I have a kindred spirit.

Jokes. I actually love english, even though it is quite dry in relation to Literature. But, its quite formulaic, and as a math/science student, thats all you can ask for.

hahah true that - but if you're a maths/science student, English Language is the way to go!

[pi]

hahah true that - but if you're a maths/science student, English Language is the way to go!

Weak.

[mr.politiks]

Remember that not all schools offer english language, including some schools that you would expect to do so *cough* *cough*

[dilks]

Remember that not all schools offer english language, including some schools that you would expect to do so *cough* *cough*

Furthermore some schools don't offer english language because the only people who want to do it are people who are not good at english, but are instead good at *gasp* maths and science. Not that I am a maths/science person, but I can nevertheless sympathise.

[rife168]

As for the number...I think I wrote around 20-25ish, but you can write way more than that especially with English (coz it's all essays). In the paper there was a Melb High dude who had written 80, and there was a guy in my school (mchli) who wrote in excess of 100 if I recall correctly. HAVING SAID THAT, 80-100 essays aren't necessary, but I'm just showing that you have plenty of essays to practice and improve!

[charmanderp]

hahah true that - but if you're a maths/science student, English Language is the way to go!

Weak.

Everyone knows Literature is where it's at :p

[Starlight]

I don't know, not as many people performed well in english language compared to english in my high school...

[pi]

I don't know, not as many people performed well in english language compared to english in my high school...

Blame Mac.Rob and Scotch for that

[charmanderp]

Macrob has a phenomenal English cohort every year, something like 6 50s last year.