Correct me if I'm wrong..

[Chromeo33]

.. but isn't the Bachelor of Science structured in such a way that makes it really similar to any other science-related degree?

My take on this idea is that each subject you take in 2nd and 3rd years have prerequisite subjects that must be adhered to by the subjects you have completed in 1st year.

And so one can only do subjects in 2nd and 3rd years based on those 1st year subjects.

Therefore, by logic, one can only go through one 'stream' of subjects related to the same kind of scientific discipline.

E.g. Having chosen biology-based subjects in 1st year, one cannot complete engineering subjects in 2nd year BECAUSE those 2nd year engineering subjects require prerequisite 1st year engineering subjects (but are subjects one hasn't completed because one has chosen BIOLOGY in 1st year).

OR

Having chosen engineering subjects in 1st year, one can only complete 2nd year subjects that have prerequisites of engineering - which would most likely be engineering, or even physics-related, subjects once again (and the same goes for 3rd year).


Essentially, my 'theory' is that one can only go through one scientific discipline in their BSci degree @ Melbourne, a sort of 'snowballing effect' of subject selection because of prerequisite subjects in subsequent years.

Therefore, there really isn't that much flexibility in the course in that you must choose a field of interest straight up, from the word 'go'.


IS THIS CORRECT!?

[Gloamglozer]

.. but isn't the Bachelor of Science structured in such a way that makes it really similar to any other science-related degree?

My take on this idea is that each subject you take in 2nd and 3rd years have prerequisite subjects that must be adhered to by the subjects you have completed in 1st year.

And so one can only do subjects in 2nd and 3rd years based on those 1st year subjects.

Therefore, by logic, one can only go through one 'stream' of subjects related to the same kind of discipline.
E.g. Having chosen biology-based subjects in 1st year, one cannot complete engineering subjects in 2nd year BECAUSE those 2nd year engineering subjects require prerequisite 1st year engineering subjects (but are subjects one hasn't completed because one has chosen BIOLOGY in 1st year).

OR

Having chosen engineering subjects in 1st year, one can only complete 2nd year subjects that have prerequisites of engineering and the same for 3rd year.


Essentially, my 'theory' is that one can only go through one scientific discipline in their science degree, a sort of 'snowballing effect' of subject selections because of prerequisite subjects in subsequent years.


IS THIS CORRECT!?

Sort of.  That's why in first year, the B.Sci specifically states that all first years must do subjects in at least 2 different science disciplines to open them up to opportunities in future years.  This rule is in place so it doesn't restrict students and gives them more freedom.

In second year, you have the choice to narrow it down to two areas and keep the option of keeping 2 or 3 majors open.  Or if you are dead set on a specific major, you can try to complete as many subjects that are related to your major and if you have any room left, you can do other science electives that you enjoy or may enjoy.

In my opinion, I think the B.Sci is the most flexible course offered at UoM because it doesn't have any compulsory subjects such as Intro Micro, Intro Macro and quantitative subjects for B.Com and IDF subjects for Arts.  For B.Sci, you just need to:

Successful completion of 300 points comprising:

    * 225 points of science subjects including:
          o At least 62.5 points at Level 1
          o At least 62.5 points at Level 2
          o At least 75 points at Level 3 (including 50 points of a prescribed science major at Level 3)
    * 50 points of breadth subjects including at least 12.5 points at Level 2 or Level 3
    * 25 points (either science subjects or breadth subjects) at Level 1, 2 or 3


Additional requirements:

    * No more than 125 points at Level 1 may be included in the BSc
    * No more than 37.5 points of breadth at Level 1 may be included in the BSc
    * Progression: Students must normally complete 50 points of study at one subject year level before proceeding to the next subject year level.
    * Diversity of Level 1 science study: Students must complete Level 1 subjects from at least two different areas of study. A maximum of 37.5 points at Level 1 from any single area of study may be completed. The areas of study available are: Biology; Chemistry; Earth Sciences; Engineering Systems; Geography and Environments; Informatics; Mathematics and Statistics; Physics; Psychology; Vision Sciences

https://handbook.unimelb.edu.au/view/2011/B-SCI

EDIT:  By the way, each subject is worth 12.5 credit points.  So in total, for the B.Sci, you complete 300 points (24 subjects).

[Chromeo33]

Ahh, ok.

So there is some level of flexibility with the course, its not too narrow a gap in terms of subject selection..

Kk thanks for clearing that up

[Gloamglozer]

Ahh, ok.

So there is some level of flexibility with the course, its not too narrow a gap in terms of subject selection..

Kk thanks for clearing that up

Not at all.  Since you're forced to pick at least two areas of study in first year, you've got at least 2 areas you can major in.  But you'll find that most people pick subjects in 3 areas of study, eg. Chemistry and Biology are the two most popular subjects in first year and as for the third subject, it might be psychology, physics, maths...  And that makes up three.

[rustic_metal]

You can keep a whole range of options open by smart subject selection in first year. You obviously can't keep everything open in later years as the reason they're later year subjects is that you need prerequisite knowledge to complete them. So unless you manage to do every first year subject, you won't be able to do every second year subject.

In the BSci, pretty much every discipline at first year level has a pair of subjects - one in semester 1 and one in semester 2. So if you were interested in chem/bio/med/vet/etc, you would take Bio 1&2 and Chem 1&2 for starters. Then you'd look at what other prereqs second year subjects need, so you may have to take, say, Calculus 2 to make yourself eligible to take a later subject. If you're interested in engineering you might take either ESD (eng) 1 or 2 depending on the type of eng you're interested in. You might also take Physics 1 if you're interested in potentially going into medicine-related fields (ask Russ about this one).

So yeah, basically you just pick 2-3 of the areas that form the basis for what you want to specialise in later, giving you heaps of flexibility after first year (as opposed to learning about teeth and stuff straight from the get-go in a dent degree). For example, I took maths, physics and engineering in first year, giving me the options of studying maths, physics, IT and most areas of engineering (besides bio and chem related ones) in second year. In second year I'm taking electrical engineering, mechanical engineering and software systems, narrowing it down as gloamglozer said by specialising a bit more. In third year I'll have to pick one of those three to make my major. Note that if you course plan smartly enough (and can be arsed), you can fulfil the requirements for two majors (e.g. I could have done electrical engineering and mechanical engineering).

[Chromeo33]

You can keep a whole range of options open by smart subject selection in first year. You obviously can't keep everything open in later years as the reason they're later year subjects is that you need prerequisite knowledge to complete them. So unless you manage to do every first year subject, you won't be able to do every second year subject.

In the BSci, pretty much every discipline at first year level has a pair of subjects - one in semester 1 and one in semester 2. So if you were interested in chem/bio/med/vet/etc, you would take Bio 1&2 and Chem 1&2 for starters. Then you'd look at what other prereqs second year subjects need, so you may have to take, say, Calculus 2 to make yourself eligible to take a later subject. If you're interested in engineering you might take either ESD (eng) 1 or 2 depending on the type of eng you're interested in. You might also take Physics 1 if you're interested in potentially going into medicine-related fields (ask Russ about this one).

So yeah, basically you just pick 2-3 of the areas that form the basis for what you want to specialise in later, giving you heaps of flexibility after first year (as opposed to learning about teeth and stuff straight from the get-go in a dent degree). For example, I took maths, physics and engineering in first year, giving me the options of studying maths, physics, IT and most areas of engineering (besides bio and chem related ones) in second year. In second year I'm taking electrical engineering, mechanical engineering and software systems, narrowing it down as gloamglozer said by specialising a bit more. In third year I'll have to pick one of those three to make my major. Note that if you course plan smartly enough (and can be arsed), you can fulfil the requirements for two majors (e.g. I could have done electrical engineering and mechanical engineering).

Ahh, ok. But were you able to get help from any people from UoM in regards to subject planning or do you have to do all the research yourself?

[Russ]

If you want help you can get it, but it's not hard to figure out yourself (and there's not much research to do, it's just checking the handbook)

[slothpomba]

It isn't actually at restrictive or bad, you'll find you can get into almost any of the 2nd year units if you structure your first year right. Just look at the possible majors you have in mind and what subjects they need. BIO will open a lot of health sciencey doors and math's will help for engineering and things like that.

Even if you change your mind in 2nd year you always could take a 1st year unit if you really wanted to but that'd be a bit screwy degree wise.

I See you're also considering monash, let me get a couple words in here:

Monash is a lot more restrictive than melbourne (i think so), read the "Breadth of Studies" section and you'll see what i mean.

I think personally Option 2 is the better way to go because for option 1 you need 3 sets of 2 sequences so thats 6 things you have to take where as option 2 you only need to take 3 subjects. The downside of option two is you may like me, not like one of the groupings, i myself didn't really want to do any of the earth science subjects.

It's one of my reasons for considering a transfer to be honest, i don't know why they impose a structure so restrictive.

I have a couple gripes with it though that might bias me: I gotta take an earth science unit i dont want, My math unit isnt recognised as one of the math units that would furfill the math requirement listed there... so i have to also do a stats unit or something which i also don't want to, it doesn't sound like a lot but thats essentially 2 units out of 8 blown on things i dont want to do, 25%. I didn't get any room to do some electives (that was one of my major reasons for looking forward to uni, doing some electives subjects i had in mind), this also majorly pissed me off. This only applies to plain BSc though not advanced.

[rustic_metal]

Ahh, ok. But were you able to get help from any people from UoM in regards to subject planning or do you have to do all the research yourself?

Its hardly any research. You pick what things you might want to do at third year level, then figure out their prereqs at 2nd year level, then figure out all THEIR prereqs at first year level. Voila, all doors open.