Private Schools

[Spreadbury]

I really can't agree with you on the "it's about learning for life"

perhaps in the early years, but the only subject that I can think will have a remote bearing on my future would be english. perhaps this point of view belongs in another topic but VCE to me just seems like a year to get xx.xx ATAR so that you can study something that will actually teach you learning for life. I do psychology but that has absolutely no bearing on what I want to do, nor would I really say i've learnt anything outside of english this year- that's only my personal experience through all my rote-learning subjects though.

I can't really disagree with you on the rest of what you said though so I must concede defeat.

[lynt.br]

I don't think the issue is whether you can do well in a public school or if you can do poorly in a private school. Obviously if you study hard you should achieve well regardless of whether you went to government or private school. The issue is there is a clear absence of equality between private schools and government schools, and a ridiculously large disparity between the elite private schools and the under-funded government schools.

Statistically, I would guess that simply 'attending' a private school over a state school will, on average, boost your TER score. The list of highest performing schools is constantly dominated by private schools while government schools are sorely under represented. I'd hazard that at least some of this disparity is because of the additional resources available to private schools over public schools.

Factors contributing to success in VCE include more than just textbooks and teachers. It's the entire atmosphere of the school you attend. I was lucky to go to a relatively decent public school but even then I had to put up with a classroom which was once a toilet block and which still had piping coming out of its walls. These things didn't directly impact on my ability to study and learn but they definitely de-motivated me and made me feel like my education was valued less than those who paid thousands of dollars to go to a private school.

If people are arguing that everyone has the potential to do well then why don't we reflect that by reducing the gap between private and public schools? It's easy to say that if you work hard you can do well even if you go to an under represented school but how many of you actually believe you would do just as well in VCE if you attended a seriously under funded school? I know I probably would not have even come close to doing as well as I did if I had gone to a school worse of than mine. I was lucky to at least be able to do the subjects I wanted to do, have class sizes at a reasonable 20-25 and have teachers who were, for the most part, motivated and qualified. I know other schools, however, aren't so lucky. Personally, an educational gap this big just flies in the face of equality in education.

[EvangelionZeta]

I really can't agree with you on the "it's about learning for life"

perhaps in the early years, but the only subject that I can think will have a remote bearing on my future would be english. perhaps this point of view belongs in another topic but VCE to me just seems like a year to get xx.xx ATAR so that you can study something that will actually teach you learning for life. I do psychology but that has absolutely no bearing on what I want to do, nor would I really say i've learnt anything outside of english this year- that's only my personal experience through all my rote-learning subjects though.

I can't really disagree with you on the rest of what you said though so I must concede defeat.

If anything, it's only after VCE that "learning for life" doesn't really happen.  Vocational learning=/=life learning - in a comfy, secure environment like school, it's easier to teach you life lessons and to make you a more well rounded human being.  It's worth point out that the word education comes from educere in Latin, meaning "to bring forth what is within"; from my point of view, at least, school should focus on moulding the soul over "practical skills", rather than vice versa.  But yes, this is another topic altogether.

[Mulan]

I appreciate your opinion but who says students don't learn at religious schools? Would you know? Have you been to one?

I for one go to a catholic school and I must say, no offence, that RE is the one class I do not look forward to every single day when I check my timetable and find it distinctively highlighted in yellow for obvious reasons. Yes, you may learn some helpful morals and values etc. but is there really any need for the tedious background information on how to read the bible or who St. blablabla was? However, I do think that the morals and all that are important but it could be taught under a different subject name like pastoral or Group learning or something, not under RE. The facts and content of actual RE could instead be an elective from yr 7, and the reflective stuff compulsory but under a different name and also involving more games and fun things
Anyways, that's just my opinion, don't wanna cause any arguments here XD

[Eriny]

In regard to the non-academic aspects of private school, that makes a lot of sense. I never actually realised that people would pay extra money for crazy amounts of house events, religious education, sport at inconvenient times of the day, and the opportunity to spend even more money on frivolous events. My cynicism aside, I can see why you might want to choose that sort of thing. Aside from being quite holistic, and I'm sure, at times, even enjoyable, it seems like it has a nice aesthetic as well, as though you're on the set of Dead Poet's Society, or something.

Personally, the thought of early-morning rowing sessions, school chapel, showing unrelenting enthusiasm and pride in an abstract institution, as well as 'survival' camps doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, and I believe these things are quite unrelated in the formation of an identity. However, I totally respect that others probable have a different outlook than me.

[EvangelionZeta]

In regard to the non-academic aspects of private school, that makes a lot of sense. I never actually realised that people would pay extra money for crazy amounts of house events, religious education, sport at inconvenient times of the day, and the opportunity to spend even more money on frivolous events. My cynicism aside, I can see why you might want to choose that sort of thing. Aside from being quite holistic, and I'm sure, at times, even enjoyable, it seems like it has a nice aesthetic as well, as though you're on the set of Dead Poet's Society, or something.

Personally, the thought of early-morning rowing sessions, school chapel, showing unrelenting enthusiasm and pride in an abstract institution, as well as 'survival' camps doesn't appeal to me in the slightest, and I believe these things are quite unrelated in the formation of an identity. However, I totally respect that others probable have a different outlook than me.

It's funny you would phrase it that way, because in all honesty the stuff that you're condemning is the stuff which I think will be the highlight of my schooling life, and I'm fairly certain that if it weren't for what my school offered me for six years, I wouldn't feel as complete as a person.  Others probably have a different outlook indeed.  

Agree to disagree? :p

[Russ]

Oh co-curricular activities. The major highlight of a private school is the fact that you get so much more than an education. You get access to things that just aren't available at the majority of public schools, you have the opportunity to build connections that will help you after you graduate.

Just one example is the fact that the chief assessor of VCE English gives a written reference to each student who graduates from his (private) school.

[littlebecc]

Oh co-curricular activities. The major highlight of a private school is the fact that you get so much more than an education. You get access to things that just aren't available at the majority of public schools, you have the opportunity to build connections that will help you after you graduate.

This x10000

[Spreadbury]

Oh co-curricular activities. The major highlight of a private school is the fact that you get so much more than an education. You get access to things that just aren't available at the majority of public schools, you have the opportunity to build connections that will help you after you graduate.

say you did some of these things on your own- such as community service or sport. I think it would be a lot more impressive to employers or anyone else if people took the initiative to do such activities on their own rather than just "oh, your school forced you to do these things? marvelous!" seems like yet another way that kids at private schools are "spoon fed"

[Russ]

I'm not talking about playing football every weekend or helping out at a nursing home. A friend got a work placement with a surgery team (don't know the details) because her friend's mother worked there. They're both at an elite private girls school. That's the sort of advantage I refer to. It's not fair or equitable, but you can't deny it exists.

[Spreadbury]

because her friend's mother worked there

not much to do with the school?

[IntoTheNewWorld]

Oh co-curricular activities. The major highlight of a private school is the fact that you get so much more than an education. You get access to things that just aren't available at the majority of public schools, you have the opportunity to build connections that will help you after you graduate.

say you did some of these things on your own- such as community service or sport. I think it would be a lot more impressive to employers or anyone else if people took the initiative to do such activities on their own rather than just "oh, your school forced you to do these things? marvelous!" seems like yet another way that kids at private schools are "spoon fed"

what the hell is up with this "spoon feeding" thing, seriously. Are you saying it's better to go to a school that has less opportunities or support for anything?

[Spreadbury]

what the hell is up with this "spoon feeding" thing, seriously. Are you saying it's better to go to a school that has less opportunities or support for anything?

no probably not. but to relate this to the argument, going to a private school doesn't guarantee you more opportunities or more support. private schools can just as easily have bad teachers like a public school can, and less opportunities? how? because we're not forced into taking co-curricular subjects? they're still offered

and before everyone starts in on a "oh your backtracking your argument automatically sucks" i'd just like you all to know that no i'm not backtracking- this is schools in general, not public vs. private.

[EvangelionZeta]

because her friend's mother worked there

not much to do with the school?

Missing the point - again, with no elitism intended, private schools (due to costs) tend to attract a lot of "upper class" families, so a lot more medical practitioners, rich business people, even celebrities and so on.  For better or for worse, knowing the sons and daughters of CEOs and politicians is going to get you places.

As for being able to do things like community service and such outside of school - sure, why not?  But again, employers aren't going to think "spoonfed" when you say you were part of a community service initiative established within your highschool.  Also consider the impact of "environment" - call it osmosis if you will, but having these sorts of things around you encourage you to get become a part of it, and to get motivated, and so on.

no probably not. but to relate this to the argument, going to a private school doesn't guarantee you more opportunities or more support. private schools can just as easily have bad teachers like a public school can, and less opportunities? how? because we're not forced into taking co-curricular subjects? they're still offered

and before everyone starts in on a "oh your backtracking your argument automatically sucks" i'd just like you all to know that no i'm not backtracking- this is schools in general, not public vs. private.

Yes, private schools can have bad teachers too.  Yes, public schools often offer the same sort of co-curricular activities which private schools will provide for.  The difference is, unfortunately, money - private schools (due to funding and parent/alumni networking) have more connections, more funding to put into making these co-curricular activities flourish, etc.  To quote a friend at a middle range public school, her teachers are often half-assed, and people like the debating coordinator don't really try or even know what they're doing.  When you're in the "elite" environment which private schools try to foster (also provided for with mass funding), you're going to get better quality within these things, and more people trying to do them.

[IntoTheNewWorld]

because her friend's mother worked there

not much to do with the school?

Missing the point - again, with no elitism intended, private schools (due to costs) tend to attract a lot of "upper class" families, so a lot more medical practitioners, rich business people, even celebrities and so on.  For better or for worse, knowing the sons and daughters of CEOs and politicians is going to get you places.

As for being able to do things like community service and such outside of school - sure, why not?  But again, employers aren't going to think "spoonfed" when you say you were part of a community service initiative established within your highschool.  Also consider the impact of "environment" - call it osmosis if you will, but having these sorts of things around you encourage you to get become a part of it, and to get motivated, and so on.

Agreed. In average public schools you just don't get a feel for how far you can go, which affects the middle range students a lot imo.