The earnings of Arts graduates

[brendan]

supposed uselessness of an Arts degree that you are not directly IMPLYING that Arts is a joke and that there isn't much to be gained from completing it?

Where have I said that? Where have I implied that?

[Nick]

Take a long hard look at this thread and your precious Arts criticism thread which you insisted on bumping today.

[brendan]

Take a long hard look at this thread and your precious Arts criticism thread which you insisted on bumping today.

Go on, show us, quote me where i have said anything to the effect that "Arts is a joke and that there isn't much to be gained from completing it"

[Nick]

Firstly, if you do stand-alone BA do not expect to get a job in the first place let alone worry about wages.

Now let's turn to the other professions

Now let's turn to other professions shall we??? Oh that's okay, now that we have Arts all sorted out and pin pointed as a stream of study which guarantees you NOTHING, lets move on to the more meaninful professions that might actually leave us with some full time employment

[humph]

Brendan, you're being a dick. I'm sorry, but you're intentionally being antagonistic by taking a superior stance on an issue that you know will just rile people up. I don't really see what the point of your posts are. You're also ignoring any points raised by other people about the enjoyment of arts, instead focussing on your points about income. They're raising the point that the wages earnt by an Arts student are not as relevant to them as the interest they have in the courses they take. Perhaps you should consider that, and realise that not everything is about money.

[Nick]

A survey of graduates who completed their course requirements in 2006 done around four months after the completion of degree requirements found that:
http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/content/download/3465/14505/file/Grad%20Files%202007.pdf

% of bachelor degree graduates still seeking full-time employment by field of education:

Humanities       24.9
Languages       24.1
Visual\Perform. Art    33.7
Social Sciences    26.1
Psychology       21.1
Life Sciences       27.3

compared to an average across all disciplines of 15.5%

These statistics once again imply your belief that studying Arts related disciplines is less advantageous than studying medicine, dentistry, law etc in terms of MONEY AND JOB OPPORTUNITIES. There is more to life than money, Brendan!

And, you have the audacity to put "Psychology" in bold- the field that I hope to pursue!

[brendan]

Firstly, if you do stand-alone BA do not expect to get a job in the first place let alone worry about wages.
Now let's turn to the other professions

Actually I was being facetious on that as i highlighted here:

Firstly, if you do stand-alone BA do not expect to get a job in the first place let alone worry about wages.

That's a pretty ridiculous claim. Wanna back it up?

I was exaggerating =P
http://cis.org.nz/issue_analysis/IA12/IA12.PDF
arts professors seem to get paid less too: http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,2523.0.html

However, my point was that an individual who completes a standalone BA ought to be expect labour market difficulties:

A survey of graduates who completed their course requirements in 2006 done around four months after the completion of degree requirements found that:
http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/content/download/3465/14505/file/Grad%20Files%202007.pdf

% of bachelor degree graduates still seeking full-time employment by field of education:

Humanities       24.9
Languages       24.1
Visual\Perform. Art    33.7
Social Sciences    26.1
Psychology       21.1
Life Sciences       27.3

Compared to an average across all disciplines of 15.5%

Now labour market difficulties doesn't mean that BA "guarantees you NOTHING", or that it "is a joke and that there isn't much to be gained from completing it". They were your words not mine.

These statistics once again imply your belief that studying Arts related disciplines is less advantageous than studying medicine, dentistry, law etc in terms of MONEY AND JOB OPPORTUNITIES. There is more to life than money, Brendan!

No, I'm just the messenger, all I did was provide the statistics. The OP wanted information about the money and career prospects of certain courses. Just because I provided statistics doesn't mean that "MONEY AND JOB OPPORTUNITIES" is all there is to life.

[Nick]

He wanted information so you thought it would be the perfect opportunity to pounce on Arts related disciplines once again.
Brendan you know too well that these statistics and information are reflective of your own views, and you are using phrases such as, "I'm just the messenger" to distance yourself from the fact that your views are actually implied in the statistics that you continue to quote and re-quote every chance you get.

[brendan]

"I'm just the messenger"

Actually i am just that when it came to the statistics.
People can see for themselves here:
http://www.graduatecareers.com.au/content/download/3465/14505/file/Grad%20Files%202007.pdf

[Nick]

Well I am sure everyone that wanted to hear your message would have it well and truly drilled into their consciousness by now!

[jcc]

121-066 Sexing the Self
http://www.unimelb.edu.au/HB/subjects/121-066.html

Queer Theory Ten Years On
https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2008/106-436

Because issues of gender/sexuality are so clear cut in today's society, right?

German Humour
https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2008/126-464
"This subject considers the questions: What do Germans consider funny?..."

Way to be selective, how about showing the full description? Frankly, to only be able to speak a language without in anyway being able to engage with others would be useless. Humor is probably the best way at engaging with others. Obviously, German-humor is quite different from others and thus it has proper place within a Language course. Unless you're also saying languages are unimportant?

Theorising the Spectator
https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2008/106-448
"the question of spectatorship in psychoanalytic-semiotic theories of the cinematic apparatus;" WTF?

Yes, because people should just produce films/tv shows without ever contemplating their audience, right? Seems that such a course would be fairly important for a film major to complete, no studio would want to sink money into a project that doesn't even have a target audience.

131-085 Witches and Witch Hunting in Europe 
https://app.portal.unimelb.edu.au/CSCApplication/view/2008/131-085

If you're in any way trying to insinuate that this is pointless, then you're pretty much calling *all* history completely useless. In which case, you're just completely nuts. The witch hunts were a fairly significant part of (early) modern European history.

The other subjects are useful too -- but I'm not going to go through and outline why, that's a waste of time considering you've already got your mind made up about it.

And moreover, along with teaching valuable communication skills, Arts (with all its humanities subjects) enables students to better understand (and thus empathise with) their fellow humans. Perhaps you should dabble with Arts a bit, maybe then could be a bit more compassionate, insteading of wording things in such an inflammatory way ("Why the poor don't deserve government life support"). Oh, and maybe you'd understand exactly why people are inferring that you're insulting Arts in this topic (and others).

[jsimmo]

Well I am sure everyone that wanted to hear your message would have it well and truly drilled into their consciousness by now!

lol! agreed.

[Nick]

I challenge Brendan to come up with a coherent response that doesn't involve citations from newspaper articles and statistics.

[Rietie]

I challenge Brendan to come up with a coherent response that doesn't involve citations from newspaper articles and statistics.

This should be interesting.
*sitting back and relaxing and watching this thread with anticipation*

....and then Brendan left (very mysteriously) from the forum.

[AppleXY]

Just out of curiosity,

where do BA people work?