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July 17, 2025, 11:10:15 am

Author Topic: Election: November 24  (Read 28831 times)  Share 

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Toothpaste

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« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2007, 09:31:42 pm »
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Quote from: "rustic_metal"
Quote from: "Toothpick"
Yay!

Well our federal Education Minister, Julie Bishop, wants to impose performance-based pay for teachers on the states from 2009.

Quote from: "rustic_metal"
i disagree and all your points are ill-founded and pretentious.


Thank you.

(Note that I don't really stand firm for what I said before, I'm sure you can tell.)

well i did do what you asked for  :P


I appreciate it.  :D

rustic_metal

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« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2007, 09:47:15 pm »
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Quote from: "Toothpick"
Quote from: "rustic_metal"
Quote from: "Toothpick"
Yay!

Well our federal Education Minister, Julie Bishop, wants to impose performance-based pay for teachers on the states from 2009.

Quote from: "rustic_metal"
i disagree and all your points are ill-founded and pretentious.


Thank you.

(Note that I don't really stand firm for what I said before, I'm sure you can tell.)

well i did do what you asked for  :P


I appreciate it.  :D

just doing my bit to help out.

asa.hoshi

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« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2007, 10:35:52 pm »
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i think the only reason why i will vote for labor is because kevin rudd can speak chinese and john howard is too old and i dont like peter costello. lol pretty lame reasons. but to be honest, i have no interest in politics because all politicians are liars. all they want is power.
I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER!!

Odette

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« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2007, 06:44:53 am »
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Quote from: "asa.hoshi"
but to be honest, i have no interest in politics because all politicians are liars. all they want is power.


Yeah same here :)
Well I wont be voting this year anyways lol so whoever wins wins, im not fussed :)

Eriny

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« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2007, 08:33:05 pm »
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I actually think it's a shame that so many people are apathetic about politics. And it's not like it's their fault, it's just that the world is severely lacking in inspirational politicians right now (though fortunately there are inspirational leaders who probably respect themselves too much to become politicians).

Toothpaste

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« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2007, 09:06:22 pm »
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Quote from: "Eriny"
I actually think it's a shame that so many people are apathetic about politics.


Me too.

Ahmad

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« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2007, 09:55:11 pm »
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Who needs politics anyway  :roll:
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Collin Li

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« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2007, 10:47:42 pm »
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Quote from: "Eriny"
I actually think it's a shame that so many people are apathetic about politics. And it's not like it's their fault, it's just that the world is severely lacking in inspirational politicians right now (though fortunately there are inspirational leaders who probably respect themselves too much to become politicians).


Ron Paul is one charismatic person with stunning truth surrounding his words. He's running as a presidential candidate for the Republican party. His website: http://www.ronpaul2008.com

I don't know anyone like that in Australia, but some of the Liberal front-bench are good (not all, especially foreign policy ones like Alexander Downer, boo). I like Costello and Nick Minchin, but this is out of ideology rather than charisma really. They do speak truth, though. Personally, I think Costello is better than Howard.

bubble sunglasses

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« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2007, 11:20:47 pm »
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1. Green/independent
   2.          "
   3.Labour
 
   I agree with what enwiabe said about the Liberals on his first post here and on his fight with costargh -now flushed away to eternity, but the word "xenophobic" [for either Howard or the Libs] stood out.
  Yes, the economy is important, but I have zero-tolerance for a govermment which treats Indigenous Australians, gays, immigrants, childless couples/women etc as second-class citizens. Couple this with their limp-wristed approach to climate change and you see why I won't be voting liberal :)

   Also, Coblin -after seeing you as having a free-thinking, libertarian stance on Bos, I must say I was taken aback to see that you consider yourself a "swing-voter"

Collin Li

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« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2007, 11:44:06 pm »
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Quote from: "bubble sunglasses"
Yes, the economy is important, but I have zero-tolerance for a govermment which treats Indigenous Australians, gays, immigrants, childless couples/women etc as second-class citizens. Couple this with their limp-wristed approach to climate change and you see why I won't be voting liberal :)

Also, Coblin -after seeing you as having a free-thinking, libertarian stance on Bos, I must say I was taken aback to see that you consider yourself a "swing-voter"


Well, if the Liberal party really discriminates against Indigenous Australians as you say, then I really have no candidate to vote for, since it conflicts with my libertarian views. :P

The Liberal party is far from ideal, but it would still get my vote. I definitely would not vote Labor, but I would consider voting Greens/Democrats just to push the idea of smaller government intervention (in social matters) into parliament. However, I fundamentally disagree with their socialist viewpoints (to me almost everything is socialist, :D)

If you want to hear my life story, my initial political views began from the typical left-wing indoctrination. Concerned about civil liberties (gay rights, abortion rights, etc.) I looked to those who shared these "progressive" ideas with me. Unfortunately, it was the left that found me first, and I pretty much took up socialist policy by "default." After my independent pursuit of economics, I began to become more and more convinced that the free-market society works, at least much better than the government could do, so hence I became a free-market libertarian. However, you could say that I am ultimately for the social liberties of mankind, and it would be my first priority.

However, Labor has failed on those fronts of social liberty, and therefore will not win my vote. The two-party political system is aligned in a way such that it is always a win-lose situation for me. The Liberal party is socially conservative (I disagree) and economically conservative (I agree), while the Labor party is usually socially progressive (I agree) and economically "progressive" (cough: regressive -- I think you can tell I disagree). But this time around, Labor has failed to be socially progressive: they are too gutless to remove discrimination of gays, to make a prompt exit from Iraq and to leave our internet alone (voted for NetAlert)! (Am I the only one who sees the threat of NetAlert and national broadband?)

...and no, Kevin Rudd is not an economic conservative. That ad campaign is a joke.

brendan

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« Reply #55 on: October 29, 2007, 01:14:45 pm »
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Who is Peter Costello?
Costello's maiden speech to Parliament in 1990:
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/firstspeech.asp?id=CT4

http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_w42/idw2007.10.18.19.20.05.html
"Having previously referred to himself as a "Burkean-type liberal", Costello has made the primacy of the individual the centrepiece of his political thinking. From the time of his maiden speech to Parliament in 1990, he has emphasised the subservience of government to the citizen, warned against the danger of ideology and made it clear that his allegiance is to the individual over monopoly control. These fundamental precepts dovetail neatly with Howard's view of the world and offer comfort to an electorate that will be looking for continuity and renewal from a Costello-led government. Costello's combination of more than a decade's experience as Treasurer and a personal passion for understanding such critical policy areas as demographic change, competitive federalism and the welfare of our indigenous communities make him well able to implement the Government's reform agenda. Like Howard, Costello has also shown a willingness to take the hard decisions to advance the national interest, irrespective of their popularity. The last is particularly pertinent as it involved the Treasurer saying "no" to the spending "wish lists" of his colleagues. This capacity to hold the line assumes greater importance as a re-elected Coalition government will find itself again swimming in a sea of state Labor governments. Costello should have few problems translating his experience dealing with state treasurers, who have included new premiers John Brumby and Anna Bligh, into productive relationships at the head of government."

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s255582.htm
Childhood
"Peter Costello was brought up in the Melbourne suburb of Blackburn by his teacher father and educational psychologist mother. He was one of three children: Tim, Peter and Janet, born in that order. It was a strictly Christian home. The Costellos were foundation members of the Blackburn Baptist Church in the mid-1950s. Oldest brother Tim is currently the President of the Baptist Union of Australia. He works in a small spartan room on the 6th floor of an old office block at the unfashionable end of Collins Street in Melbourne. His window overlooks a back alley, the paint around his doorway is chipped. The grey carpet on the floor is decidedly thin, though not threadbare. Tim Costello says the teachings of the Baptist Church gave his younger brother Peter his fundamental view of the world."

On the role of government and individual social freedom
Peter Costello: "I'll take the second part of it. I do have a suspicion of power, I think that power can be abused, and it can be abused to over-ride individual choices and individual freedoms. I think governments' powers should be limited. I really do believe in that. I also think politics should be limited, because there are a lot of people who make the mistake of thinking every problem in our society can be fixed by government. I don't think that's right. I think if you gave governments the power to fix every problem in our society, you would have overpowering governments, which would tend towards the authoritarian impulse, and I think there are areas of our society which we just ought to get the governments out as far as possible, out of family lives, you ought to let the non-government institutions of society, like the family and the school and the community and the church to take a lot of the slack. I am very suspicious of governments that want to tell people how to think and what to do. I think that can be a real threat to individual freedom."

"Peter Costello does however have a guiding ideological framework which underpins his view of the world and informs his stance in policy debates. His core belief is in the primacy of the individual in society. "

Peter Costello: "What I believe is that everybody should be given the choice to do the best they can, and every individual should be able to maximise their opportunities. And I think individual freedom of thought and conscience is just so important to their self worth, to who they are, and to the kind of community that we want to build. And to me these are really important values, whether they're freedom of religious thought, freedom of conscience, freedom of political thought, I believe in maximising individuals' choices and respecting their choices."

On the role of government and individual economic freedom
"Peter Costello is a free marketeer, a privatiser, a deregulator, a tax reformer, a union basher, a surplus builder and fierce protector of the budget bottom line. He also has a reputation for arrogance and intolerance. Those are the public perceptions of him that come up in research into what people think of the government but what's missing is an understanding of the ideas that motivate him, and his views beyond economics, views that set him apart from John Howard. Peter Costello has in fact been exceedingly disciplined in not revealing himself. In the Canberra Bureau of The Australian newspaper, Foreign Editor, Paul Kelly, explains why."

Peter costello in his maiden speech to Parliament on economic freedom:
"It is tempting to stand here and talk about the economy as if it were just a statistic or a series of tables. It is tempting to stand in the luxurious and imposing surrounds of this House and to think that somehow this is the engine of the Australian nation; it is not. The engine room of the Australian nation is found in the shops, the factories, the farms and a whole host of workplaces scattered far and wide across this nation. Some are large but predominantly they are small.

It is the enterprise and the work of those millions that create the wealth of this nation. These are the people who sought no government commission to trade; they sought no government program to establish their business or job; they asked for no government assistance to maintain it. They do not ask the Government to be a nanny, to scold, to reprove and to smother them with advice.

What they ask of government is an unobtrusive administration so that they can continue to generate that wealth, continue to provide for their families and continue to pursue their aspirations. In going about their ordinary business, these millions of wealth generators contribute to the well being of all. So, in the contest between the government and the citizen, I am for the citizen."

Costello describes himself as a "burkean-type" liberal
Peter Costello: "Look, there are certain things that a society has to be able to do. You've got to have a basic taxation system, in my view, to pay for education and health and defence and age pensions and those kind of things that individuals can't do for themselves, and so I believe in having a basic tax system and a basic social security system. But I'm not an anarchist, no, I just regard myself as really an old-fashioned Liberal, maybe a Burkeian type Liberal, you know. I'm a Liberal. People say 'What are you, are you an anarchist or are you a libertarian, or this, or that?' I just sort of regard myself as a Liberal actually."

On Aboriginal relations:
Gerald Tooth: "John Howard banned Peter Costello and other Cabinet Ministers from walking across the Harbour Bridge in the Sydney Reconciliation March. Costello toed the line, despite hinting that he wanted to take part. Later the Treasurer did march in Melbourne when the Prime Minister reversed his decision. It was a symbolically powerful gesture but just that, a gesture. Peter Costello has spoken little of his vision for reconciliation, until now."

Peter Costello: "I think it's coming from two angles actually. I think there is a very large part of non-Aboriginal Australia that wants to make a statement to the Aboriginal people of Australia, to say 'We want you to feel part of us, and we want to feel part of you.' I think they want to make that statement. I think on the other hand too, there is also a lot of Aboriginal Australia that wants to reconcile with non-Aboriginal Australia. This is going to come from two angles. I think this is an important issue. I was, as you know, wanted to demonstrate my support of it, which I did. I think it is going to go on for a long period of time, but there is a lot of goodwill. I actually think there is a lot of goodwill in the community on this issue, and it's building the positive people on both sides that will take that forward."

On immigration and taking on Pauline Hanson
"Peter Costello was the first senior Liberal to take a stand against One Nation when it emerged. Having grown up in multicultural Melbourne and counted a number of Asian Australians amongst his friends, he reacted decisively to Pauline Hanson's views...He said he would be putting One Nation last on his how-to-vote card in his Melbourne-based seat of Higgins."

Peter Costello: "I think in the longer term we in Australia are probably going to build our population. I mean there's a couple of issues in here, there's the issue of environment, there's the issue of water, but as I look around the world and I see North American Free Trade area of 300-million people, I see European Union Free Trade area of 300-million people, and you see Australia, which is I think about 19-million people, it's very small compared to some of these other areas. And I think, subject to all those environmental-type issues, if we can build a bigger population in Australia, I think it will help us in economic terms, in national sovereignty terms."

Gerald Tooth: "Peter Costello's vision is to use immigration to literally fill Australia with people...It's an economically driven, populate-or-perish policy based on building market strength in the global marketplace. He won't supply a population figure that he'd like to arrive at in order to complete his vision. But the mere fact that he's talking about investigating what's environmentally sustainable suggests he's talking very big numbers indeed. Again, his views on immigration are a significant departure from the current orthodoxy within his own party."

Defiler

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« Reply #56 on: October 29, 2007, 04:38:04 pm »
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Nationals, I'm from 'rural Victoria' so to speak, and I'm a conservative at heart. I don't necessarily agree with a lot of things from either side, but there we go.

brendan

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« Reply #57 on: October 29, 2007, 10:07:48 pm »
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now who voted for one nation??????

choc_bananas

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« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2007, 10:21:32 pm »
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Quote from: "brendan"
now who voted for one nation??????


wtf?! one nation doesn't even exist anymore...
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choc_bananas

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« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2007, 10:24:10 pm »
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and why is the CLP included in the first option?... who would be voting for them that reads a VCE forum?...
b]History is the only laboratory we have in which to test the consequences of thought.[/b]
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