artistic or not?

[Collin Li]

i totally aggree.

I even consider it an insult to the youth that they get a lesser sentence in crimes. Juvenile detention should be a special case, not the other way around. Yet in many developed nations, the youth have a much larger incentive to engage in criminal activity because the sentences are more lenient for them.

The underlying assumption within all of this? That children are irrational and incapable of realising the consequences of their actions. Even if it is so, how will shielding them help it?

[cathtacular]

exactly, if society says that this is wrong, whats next, a photographer cant take pictures of infants naked with their parents consent? because they are not old enough to make their own decisions. these children are young adults, whether society wants to realize it or not, i dont care what the law says we all know that a 13 year old knows what they are doing. no one forced any of these children to take part in this.

[jess3254]

i totally aggree.

I even consider it an insult to the youth that they get a lesser sentence in crimes. Juvenile detention should be a special case, not the other way around. Yet in many developed nations, the youth have a much larger incentive to engage in criminal activity because the sentences are more lenient for them.

The underlying assumption within all of this? That children are irrational and incapable of realising the consequences of their actions. Even if it is so, how will shielding them help it?

So if a student who was 13 had sex with a teacher, would you consider it acceptable considering she consented? I certainly wouldn't. Young adolescent individuals might consent to something at the time, however might not be able to fully comprehend the implications of their actions. But meh, I would go into the 'development of the adolescent brain' etc, however I can't be bothered and need to do work. (Studies have found, that biologically, they don’t possess a great ability to make decisions however it may vary from person to person. I’ll try and find some studies later.) 

But I just find it a contradiction that this wouldn't be considered acceptable anywhere else. etc.
(This article pretty much says what I want to say: http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/art-or-not-its-still-exploitation/2008/05/27/1211654026964.html)

[Collin Li]

I would consider it acceptable, actually.

Watching the commercials of Home and Away piss me off when that schoolgirl and her teacher are tied up in a student-teacher relationship drama. Even though they are clearly conscious of their actions, there are third-parties who should mind their own business, but instead wish to dictate how personal relationships can be defined.

[cathtacular]

thats right, i think you might mean neighbours coblin (then again there always the same anyway!!) rach, the character that has a relationship with her teacher and she is 16, she is very aware of what she is doing.

[Collin Li]

Ah yes, that's right. I rarely watch channel 7 anyway.

Also, I doubt that biology can properly explain how able one is able to make decisions.

I know of a developmental psychologist that has a very balanced viewpoint on these matters, and I wouldn't be surprised if experts in the field are more open-minded than most of society on these issues.

Social conservatives love to protect arbitrarily defined social instruments such as sex and marriage from groups they arbitrarily believe it shouldn't belong to.

[jess3254]

thats right, i think you might mean neighbours coblin (then again there always the same anyway!!) rach, the character that has a relationship with her teacher and she is 16, she is very aware of what she is doing.

The FICTIONAL CHARACTER on neighbours is aware of what she's doing?!! Quality justification for an argument.
While we're on those petty examples, I made a lot of choices when I was 12-14 which I regret quite extensively now.
But seriously, I do. You can't honestly say that when you were 12, you had the same academic, thinking/ comprehending abilities as you have now. (But yes, developmental psychology is a growing area, and some of the content is debatable.) But children still need to be protected to a certain extent.
But anyway, I still stand quite firmly on the issue for reasons I have outlined already. We can agree to disagree and such.

[Collin Li]

If you wish to believe that the case depicted in Neighbours is exclusively a fictional case, then you can do that. There are surely exceptions, and setting a line is probably not the best option. I know of 20 year olds who are less capable of making decisions than 14 year olds.

However, I will not let it rest on my conscience that I could possibly be denying the rights of a couple, when I should have no hand in it.

Also, just because you regret previous choices, it doesn't mean you weren't aware of the choices. It is your personal experimentation with your choices that improve your ability to value and judge choices in the future. You would not have learnt to regret such choices had you not been given the opportunity to do it. I never said that both adults and the youth somehow have the ability to always pick the best choice, I just said that they should be able to make choices, and be responsible for them.

I believe that we do make better choices as we grow older, I did not deny that, but it is experience that improves how I make my choices. Experience comes with the act of exercising my rights. If I am unemployed, how am I able to gain work experience?

[mark_alec]

So if a student who was 13 had sex with a teacher, would you consider it acceptable considering she consented? I certainly wouldn't.

Different situation:
1) it is sexual
2) the teacher has a duty of care

In Victoria, the age of consent is 16, so *any* 16 year old can consent to a *sexual* relationship with anyone older, providing they do not have a duty of care over said individual.

[ninwa]

Ah yes, that's right. I rarely watch channel 7 anyway.

Channel 10
*ninwa watches neighbours religiously even though she knows it's crap*'

Coblin, you have expressed my opinions exactly but in a far more eloquent way than I could ever manage. Bravo *applauds*

there would be a public outcry

There already is lol. An outcry which I feel is totally unjustified and over-the-top.

While we're on those petty examples, I made a lot of choices when I was 12-14 which I regret quite extensively now.

Me too ... but I have make quite a few choices at age 16-18 which I also regret a lot. And I know that I will continue to do so. You never stop learning and making mistakes


PS> Lol, there's an even split in the poll

I'm on the "art" side btw in case that wasn't made obvious already

[brendan]

mm art shouldn't receive any taxpayers money

[cara.mel]

This thread should have come sooner.

I was wondering why the hell IRC went from philo -> porn and it was only yesterday that excalibur explained to me this. The rest of you that were there then...

[mark_alec]

mm art shouldn't receive any taxpayers money

Why not?

[BA22]

mm art shouldn't receive any taxpayers money

haha, don't you hijack now brendan . .


The disparity of what people think children are capable of and what they are actually capable of is incredible in today's society. Our classification of minors has become somewhat obselete as we cling to traditional values that are not representative of a highly educated and perceptive youth generation. Don't get me wrong, there are some 16 year old drop kicks out there, but as coblin points out there also some 20 year old drop kicks out there. The arbitrary line we draw on the distinction between adults and children severly limits the freedoms of some individuals who are more then capable of making their own decisions.

[cathtacular]

mm art shouldn't receive any taxpayers money

The disparity of what people think children are capable of and what they are actually capable of is incredible in today's society. Our classification of minors has become somewhat obselete as we cling to traditional values that are not representative of a highly educated and perceptive youth generation. Don't get me wrong, there are some 16 year old drop kicks out there, but as coblin points out there also some 20 year old drop kicks out there. The arbitrary line we draw on the distinction between adults and children severly limits the freedoms of some individuals who are more then capable of making their own decisions.

^^^^^^ what they said. LOL