your thoughts on this so called global warming propaganda

[Mao]

you do not have to believe me, but my self-justifications are enough for myself.

Then why did you bother to mention them in the first place?

my self-justifications might have been able to convince others, but they don't necessarily have to.

btw we're wayyy off topic, we're talking about how we argue rather than the argument itself xD

[enwiabe]

Just on the finite resources bit: There is a FINITE amount of crude oil & natural gas. Yes, the supply will replenish over time but again it is time variant. And the process of decay from living matter to crude oil is a VERY long one. Once we have depleted our current supply it will be an exceedingly long time before we get it back. Think about that one.

[Collin Li]

And just to add to that, renewable energy is also worth a finite amount in that the rate of which energy supplied is finite, and future resources are worth less than present resources. Renewable energy won't be pursued by the market until it is when the scarcity of oil causes prices to increase beyond the finite value of renewable energy sources.

And if you think that'll be too late, then you either don't understand how expectations get encoded into prices (i.e: the expectations of future scarcity in the cause higher demand today, which will rise prices today), or you have really low expectations about the rate of energy that renewables will bring in.

Oh, but I love that you don't hate nuclear. That's also an option.

[costargh]

I watched 60 minutes tonight and found out something I didn't know. If you generate your own electricity (eg through solar panels on your roof) and the electricity generated by your panels exceeds the amount you used, the electricity company actually credits you the value of the electricity that you disposed of back into the electrical grid.
Business ops? lol The chick only made 12 bux or something though lol

[enwiabe]

Oh, but I love that you don't hate nuclear. That's also an option.

Aversion to nuclear power is irrational. We have long mastered the pitfalls of the technology, and so long as the appropriate safety measures are enforced, there is an almost null chance of catastrophe.

[hard]

Just on the finite resources bit: There is a FINITE amount of crude oil & natural gas. Yes, the supply will replenish over time but again it is time variant. And the process of decay from living matter to crude oil is a VERY long one. Once we have depleted our current supply it will be an exceedingly long time before we get it back. Think about that one.

it will take a long time before we deplete our current supply. Just as we advance into the future, so do our technological advances and this enables us to venture further, deeper and find oil reserves that we can't even imagine. I'm not arguing that we will run out of resources, what i'm trying to argue is the lack of credible evidence that opposing arguments tend to bring. May i say, bringing up plausible effects of global warming doesn't say nothing other than the weather changes as the temperature changes. Heck that's like saying we age because there's time, when really time is just made as a recourse to measure. Same goes with global warming, we ( the government) likes to introduce and bring up fallacious points that have no ground regarding the disastrous effects of global warming. And if what members within the political arena suggest, that we are on the brink of total catastrophe because of our own actions, then it is too late to change, hence why waste and tax money on unchangeable issues. That is why global warming is a propaganda, not because it's fake, but because it is portrayed in such a way that scares society which leads to power, more wealth and greater control of the pawns in a game of chess.

[bucket]

lol global warming
i think this pretty much sums it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvtsNXOxoWk

[enwiabe]

Just on the finite resources bit: There is a FINITE amount of crude oil & natural gas. Yes, the supply will replenish over time but again it is time variant. And the process of decay from living matter to crude oil is a VERY long one. Once we have depleted our current supply it will be an exceedingly long time before we get it back. Think about that one.

it will take a long time before we deplete our current supply. Just as we advance into the future, so do our technological advances and this enables us to venture further, deeper and find oil reserves that we can't even imagine. I'm not arguing that we will run out of resources, what i'm trying to argue is the lack of credible evidence that opposing arguments tend to bring. May i say, bringing up plausible effects of global warming doesn't say nothing other than the weather changes as the temperature changes. Heck that's like saying we age because there's time, when really time is just made as a recourse to measure. Same goes with global warming, we ( the government) likes to introduce and bring up fallacious points that have no ground regarding the disastrous effects of global warming. And if what members within the political arena suggest, that we are on the brink of total catastrophe because of our own actions, then it is too late to change, hence why waste and tax money on unchangeable issues. That is why global warming is a propaganda, not because it's fake, but because it is portrayed in such a way that scares society which leads to power, more wealth and greater control of the pawns in a game of chess.

No, you don't realise that consumption of oil is growing exponentially and the hubbert peak has already been reached.

Oil supply WILL run out in our lifetimes, and when it happens, we will be fucked. And people like you who keep saying "THERE'S SO MUCH MORE GUYZZZ WE JUST NEED TO DRILL DEEPER!!1" Don't realise that there's something called an opportunity cost.

Nobody wants to drill that deep because it's too difficult and expensive. As you get closer to earth's MOLTEN CORE, shit starts to like... i dunno... melt? Not to mention the epic pressure levels that exist far below earth's surface.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND, but one way or another; be it global warming, simple air pollution or the catastrophe of an oil-powered society running out of oil... we NEED to pursue alternatives and QUICK.

[Collin Li]

Hahahaha, you don't understand economics mate. People in the industry who have a very good idea of the reserves of oil will not cheaply sell their oil when it is scarce. If it is running out so fast, then the market would simply take that into account, and charge high prices for that. Those high prices will eventually exceed some threshold where it becomes valuable to invest in alternative energy sources. Before then, it'll just be a waste of resources.

Of course, this process could be aided by a tax that would internalise of the costs caused by pollution (which are normally faced by society).

[Collin Li]

Oil supply WILL run out in our lifetimes, and when it happens, we will be fucked. And people like you who keep saying "THERE'S SO MUCH MORE GUYZZZ WE JUST NEED TO DRILL DEEPER!!1" Don't realise that there's something called an opportunity cost.

Nobody wants to drill that deep because it's too difficult and expensive.

That just sounds like a production cost to me. See opportunity cost.

[enwiabe]

Oil supply WILL run out in our lifetimes, and when it happens, we will be fucked. And people like you who keep saying "THERE'S SO MUCH MORE GUYZZZ WE JUST NEED TO DRILL DEEPER!!1" Don't realise that there's something called an opportunity cost.

Nobody wants to drill that deep because it's too difficult and expensive.

That just sounds like a production cost to me. See opportunity cost.

It's opportunity as well. The opportunity to drill deeper costs A LOT more, but once they get the equipment in place it probably would only cost a little bit more than normal to get the oil itself. Maintenance would be a lot more, and that's about it. Initial cost though would kill any attempts at a successful operation.

[brendan]

Oil supply WILL run out in our lifetimes, and when it happens, we will be fucked. And people like you who keep saying "THERE'S SO MUCH MORE GUYZZZ WE JUST NEED TO DRILL DEEPER!!1" Don't realise that there's something called an opportunity cost.

Nobody wants to drill that deep because it's too difficult and expensive.

That just sounds like a production cost to me. See opportunity cost.

It's opportunity as well. The opportunity to drill deeper costs A LOT more, but once they get the equipment in place it probably would only cost a little bit more than normal to get the oil itself. Maintenance would be a lot more, and that's about it. Initial cost though would kill any attempts at a successful operation.

A good lesson that i've learnt from an economics professor is to ask: so what?

[enwiabe]

A good lesson I've learnt from common sense is to say: I don't answer stupid questions.

[brendan]

A good lesson I've learnt from common sense is to say: I don't answer stupid questions.

So a question relating to the implications of your own argument is "stupid"?

Says more about your own argument than anything else.

[enwiabe]

No, all it says is that your question was mind-numbingly banal.