Abortion Legislation - is it truly pro-choice?

[Glockmeister]

Yes, except that I've done both. And correctly identified the problems with both.

EDIT: I should mention that the ad hominems only began when excalibur simply refused to accept that he was wrong and KEPT arguing from a stupidly indefensible position just to "prove his point". As if he were trying to save face, instead of saying "yeah whoops didn't consider that" and back down. It's what he always does, and this frustrated me, so I decided to let it out.

Ad hominems are never acceptable... no matter how much of an arse you think a person is with an argument. It shows that you are unable to divorce your opinions about a person with the arguments that you present which should be done in a objective manner.

[jess3254]

talking crap about matters that YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND

This is what has frustrated me about this thread. Some individuals were posting information which was just completely [medically] inaccurate, or which clearly demonstrated that the person didn't understand the current structure of the health system.

I think some people don't understand and are completely unrealistic about how difficult it is to just "find" another doctor quickly, and that their GPs are the gatekeeper to many services and other doctors. It can be quite hard to seek out services when you a) don't know they exist and b) are in such difficult circumstances.

[enwiabe]

jessie0, agreed. I want to thank you for your pretty much expert opinion in this thread. I'm going to personally murder the entire Monash med faculty if you don't get in.

[costargh]

Well you'll be doing a but of murdering cause shes doing a few more VCE subs next year lol so '10 entry will be year

[jess3254]

Apologies, my belief was AMA was the authoritative body - but obviously I'm wrong. Please consider my arguments including the AMA as being the ABMP instead.

Yeah, AMA is essentially a trade union.

jessie0, agreed. I want to thank you for your pretty much expert opinion in this thread. I'm going to personally murder the entire Monash med faculty if you don't get in.

LOL, how kind of you to volunteer to do that

Definitely not an "expert opinion" :S I am nowhere near an authority on the issue. I just know a little bit about the health care system and consider myself a patient advocate.

[Glockmeister]

Yeah, she knows her shit, that's for sure.

I just had a thought though. How would you apply this new law to rural doctors. As Jessie would know, and everyone else may know, Australia is a big continent and such there are situations where towns may only have one GP to share between them. I wonder how would you apply this abortion law to this situation (and the law does say that you "must" refers).

[jess3254]

I just had a thought though. How would you apply this new law to rural doctors. As Jessie would know, and everyone else may know, Australia is a big continent and such there are situations where towns may only have one GP to share between them. I wonder how would you apply this abortion law to this situation (and the law does say that you "must" refers).

The doctor would then refer the patient to another doctor in the closest city/large town.

Anyway, that's why mandatory referral is so imperative - in some country towns there is only one doctor... so how would the individual seek out resources or find another doctor then when there's barely any help available in their area? Someone would probably need to direct them to places they could go in other towns.

[Mao]

Yeah, she knows her shit, that's for sure.

I just had a thought though. How would you apply this new law to rural doctors. As Jessie would know, and everyone else may know, Australia is a big continent and such there are situations where towns may only have one GP to share between them. I wonder how would you apply this abortion law to this situation (and the law does say that you "must" refers).

does referral have a restrictive radius of 100km or something?
I'm sure there's this wonderful thing called automotive [or even locomotive] that can be used. [just a thought]

[Glockmeister]

Yeah, she knows her shit, that's for sure.

I just had a thought though. How would you apply this new law to rural doctors. As Jessie would know, and everyone else may know, Australia is a big continent and such there are situations where towns may only have one GP to share between them. I wonder how would you apply this abortion law to this situation (and the law does say that you "must" refers).

does referral have a restrictive radius of 100km or something?
I'm sure there's this wonderful thing called automotive [or even locomotive] that can be used. [just a thought]

Yes. Even the average drive to the city could take a few hours, something that is not enjoyable even to the best of us, let alone ladies who are pregnant.

I just had a thought though. How would you apply this new law to rural doctors. As Jessie would know, and everyone else may know, Australia is a big continent and such there are situations where towns may only have one GP to share between them. I wonder how would you apply this abortion law to this situation (and the law does say that you "must" refers).

The doctor would then refer the patient to another doctor in the closest city/large town.

Anyway, that's why mandatory referral is so imperative - in some country towns there is only one doctor... so how would the individual seek out resources or find another doctor then when there's barely any help available in their area? Someone would probably need to direct them to places they could go in other towns.

How about if said doctor doesn't know anyone in the area in which said pregnant lady could actually be refered to (remembering that she will have to come back for more than one visit)?

[Mao]

1. I doubt anyone would be in their right mind to say "mmm I want an abortion, but I cbf going into the city, so I'll just have the baby."

2. I'm sure if a doctor doesn't know anyone within their vicinity, they would call a near-by hospital which would have those information. [it's only common sense to think that doctors, who are the brightest of us, also have some common sense, right?]

[Glockmeister]

1. I doubt anyone would be in their right mind to say "mmm I want an abortion, but I cbf going into the city, so I'll just have the baby."

Not neccesarily cbf going to the city, but if I go the city, that means I have to take a few days off work which means I lose money, or maybe be seen as slacking off, which could get me fired.

[jess3254]

How about if said doctor doesn't know anyone in the area in which said pregnant lady could actually be refered to (remembering that she will have to come back for more than one visit)?

He'd be a pretty incompetent doctor. They generally know most GPs who work within their district and in larger towns, and there is a GP database anyway.

Yes. Even the average drive to the city could take a few hours, something that is not enjoyable even to the best of us, let alone ladies who are pregnant.

Lol. They don't necessarily need to drive to the city to access those resources. They could just go to the closest town.

[Glockmeister]

How about if said doctor doesn't know anyone in the area in which said pregnant lady could actually be refered to (remembering that she will have to come back for more than one visit)?

He'd be a pretty incompetent doctor. They generally know most GPs who work within their district and in larger towns, and there is a GP database anyway.

Yes. Even the average drive to the city could take a few hours, something that is not enjoyable even to the best of us, let alone ladies who are pregnant.

Lol. They don't necessarily need to drive to the city to access those resources. They could just go to the closest town.

Wouldn't this be the job of the Obstetrician though, not a GP?

[Mao]

1. I doubt anyone would be in their right mind to say "mmm I want an abortion, but I cbf going into the city, so I'll just have the baby."

Not neccesarily cbf going to the city, but if I go the city, that means I have to take a few days off work which means I lose money, or maybe be seen as slacking off, which could get me fired.

beautiful logic there. if taking a few days off work means you get fired, what would the maternity leave entail?

[Glockmeister]

I believe that there is a legisative requirement to provide maternity leave.