Nurses, doctors and other health care professionals against John McCain

[jess3254]

http://www.nursesforobama.org/
http://doctorsforobama.net/

[cara.mel]

Was this solely to mock Brendan's thread? or is there a point to it


In general (not aimed at you), I hate the people on here who thinks economics = no heart, no feelings.

[jess3254]

Was this solely to mock Brendan's thread? or is there a point to it


In general (not aimed at you), I hate the people on here who thinks economics = no heart, no feelings.

My thread is as useful as Brendan's - it's to inform people that the majority of health care professionals support Barack Obama because of his policies on health. (Just like Brendan's was to inform people that the vast majority of economists support John McCain due to his policies on the economy.)

Lol, as for the economy stuff, I don't mind the free-market opinions at all. It's very interesting to get a different perspective on things. Obviously I don't support many of the ideas, purely because I can't see them being successfully applied to society, but I do take some views on board. What I can't stand is when people don't consider other factors and are extremely narrow minded and black and white, and think their views are categorically the right ones/perfect (not aimed at anyone in particular.)

[Collin Li]

Lol, as for the economy stuff, I don't mind the free-market opinions at all. It's very interesting to get a different perspective on things. Obviously I don't support many of the ideas, purely because I can't see them being successfully applied to society, but I do take some views on board.

Hmm... try almost every industry in the USA except mainly healthcare and education.

What I can't stand is when people don't consider other factors and are extremely narrow minded and black and white, and think their views are categorically the right ones/perfect (not aimed at anyone in particular.)

I can't see what's not black and white about saying "every consumer needs to have a doctor that refers them to abortions," while I can see a grey (or colourful) heterogenous market where doctors do not have to, if people don't necessarily want them that way.

[Collin Li]

Here's another misconception: capitalism only promotes material wealth, as opposed to emotional wealth.

Re: 'I think at the end, it comes down balancing material wealth and emotional wealth if that makes sense.'

Yeah, definitely. People are best able to pursue their values and objectives under a capitalist society. Like I said a few posts before, non-profit organisations and charities can still exist in capitalist society, off the free-will of the people. People have a lot of compassion, and they should definitely use it if they want to. Capitalism is not a race - it's just a system where people are free to interact with others.

[Collin Li]

More:

The invisible hand was supposed to make all of us better off, maybe it has materially but injustices occur in our society because of the pursuit of individual goals and desires. It is fine for those who are well equipped financially, intellectually or emotionally, but those who are not will have to suffer. The chase for material wealth should be balanced and kept in check. Material wealth does improve other concerns such as justice, dignity, fairness etc but it can also harm these institutions. That is why there will always be a place for the government. We both agree that it should exist but we disagree on the level of its existence.

My response:

Balanced and kept in check by who? All these qualities: justice, dignity and fairness are highly subjective, and no single individual can establish the laws on what governs these qualities. They ought to be decided by each and every individual for themselves, interacting in the marketplace, pursuing only what they deem is fair for them, dignifying for them, and just for them. No one can decide for another individual what is just, dignifying and fair. Just because I am lucky enough to have better working conditions here, it doesn't mean I ought to get in the way of those in developing countries trying desperately to make a living in poorer working conditions. That is the price they are willing to pay to achieve prosperity. I can't decide that price for them - they do it voluntarily.

Also, capitalism isn't merely a 'chase for material wealth.' As I mentioned above, capitalism is not a race - it is just a system where people are free to interact with others, pursue their personal values, whether that is to gain material prosperity, or to gain emotional prosperity. Nothing stops them from these pursuits in capitalism. On the other hand, any other system inevitably results in an individual or a group imposing their set of values onto another individual or group. I'm not saying that you shouldn't criticise those who earn money and don't do anything about poverty - you can criticise them as much as you want, just as long as they don't have to listen to you.

[brendan]

i wonder if enwiabe is gonna call "bias" on this thread.

[enwiabe]

I'm fairly sure the format of this post was satirical. But just in case, jessie0, ditto on my reply to Brendan's thread except for every instance of Barack Obama, replace it with John McCain and vice versa.

[Collin Li]

A physician has a good point about Obama
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,6203.0.html

Also, Ron Paul is a doctor who's delivered thousands of babies, and he's not for Obama (or McCain, for that matter)!

[enwiabe]

congratz to cobbers on his 4,000th post