Login

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

May 28, 2025, 09:06:38 am

Author Topic: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!  (Read 7450 times)  Share 

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

brendan

  • Guest
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2008, 07:33:22 pm »
0
"Remember, the economy exists in order to benefit the people - not the other way around."

Hello!? What is an economy, but many millions of people interacting daily? Your statement is nonsense.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 07:38:46 pm by Brendan »


brendan

  • Guest
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2008, 10:14:51 pm »
0

Jrose

  • Victorian
  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Respect: 0
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2008, 10:12:29 pm »
0
Wow, I can't believe I support Rudd. Thank you Brendan for showing me why Rudd is a dirty socialist, because he supports benefits for Students. Oh man your right, we should go back to the good old days with Howard giving more money to private schools per student then public universities, and more Federal funds to private schools even though they only educate 35% of Australia's students.

Free Market all the way! It has worked really well thus far!

Collin Li

  • VCE Tutor
  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4957
  • Respect: +17
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2008, 11:03:31 pm »
0
Wow, I can't believe I support Rudd. Thank you Brendan for showing me why Rudd is a dirty socialist, because he supports benefits for Students. Oh man your right, we should go back to the good old days with Howard giving more money to private schools per student then public universities, and more Federal funds to private schools even though they only educate 35% of Australia's students.

Free Market all the way! It has worked really well thus far!


Giving money to private schools, or public schools, is not free market. It shows how narrow your sights are set when you think that if I attack Rudd, I am supporting Howard (or Liberal).

Collin Li

  • VCE Tutor
  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4957
  • Respect: +17
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2008, 11:09:03 pm »
0
Wow, I can't believe I support Rudd. Thank you Brendan for showing me why Rudd is a dirty socialist, because he supports benefits for Students.

Also, if they were really so beneficial to students, then Kevin Rudd wouldn't need to force us to pay for these services. We would do it out of our own voluntary action, just like how I would voluntarily pay for a gym membership, for example, if I wish to utilise that service.

Jrose

  • Victorian
  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Respect: 0
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2008, 11:26:08 pm »
0
Look, I am a school student so I am not saying this from personal experience. However, many university students claim that student culture has been damaged since the introduction of optional fees. Student Unions aren't just representative bodies, they are place in which students can come together for music, sports and other services.  It also has made it harder for Students to have their voices heard in the community. Action is harder to manage without a strong union voice. I think Campus life is important, and it's needs funding to exist. (Many student newspapers have been forced to accept private advertising in their magazine just to exist).
 I beleive campus culture contributes to the whole experience of University much more then the markes you recieve.  I understand the argument of the right to choose the services we pay for. However, I think its important that all University students are given the benefits of these services without having to pay for each one individiually. These fees are a small price to pay for the benefits they provide for students.

Collin Li

  • VCE Tutor
  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4957
  • Respect: +17
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2008, 11:39:14 pm »
0
Look, I am a school student so I am not saying this from personal experience. However, many university students claim that student culture has been damaged since the introduction of optional fees. Student Unions aren't just representative bodies, they are place in which students can come together for music, sports and other services.  It also has made it harder for Students to have their voices heard in the community. Action is harder to manage without a strong union voice. I think Campus life is important, and it's needs funding to exist. (Many student newspapers have been forced to accept private advertising in their magazine just to exist).
 I beleive campus culture contributes to the whole experience of University much more then the markes you recieve.  I understand the argument of the right to choose the services we pay for. However, I think its important that all University students are given the benefits of these services without having to pay for each one individiually. These fees are a small price to pay for the benefits they provide for students.

That accusation is an exaggerated one that only far-left university students espouse. The hundreds of neutral and apathetic, as well as the libertarian and right-wing university students have not expressed any suffering from the so-called 'loss' of these student services. Ask the many university students who still hang out on this site. Campus culture is not so much afforded by the student union, but by whoever groups they hang out with, and whatever activities they wish to partake in. Students are happy to pay for the events that they believe are worthwhile paying for, while the events that appeal to no one will suffer the wrath of the marketplace, and rightfully so, as they are unable to fulfill the desires of the student body.

If students want to participate, they can. Of course it benefits some people, but those who benefit should pay. The reason why I believe this is because the cost will always be there, it's just a matter of who should pay. However, a decision should ultimately rest on whether the benefits outweigh the costs. The best test for this is to use the marketplace. It is easy for a student union to make errors in this evaluation, but if you leave the decision to each individual student making their own decision based on their own values and preferences, then the events and services must tailor the needs of the student body, or else they would not receive any business!

To argue that VSU has destroyed student services is not only a false belief, but it actually is the opposite. Instead, now we have student services that must cater to the student body, rather than the will of the bureaucrats in charge of the union.

And so what if newspapers rely on private advertisment? That is an efficient way to do things. The newspapers benefit from the funding (more importantly, the students who subsidised it benefit the most), and the private advertisers benefit. Is there something wrong with this?

brendan

  • Guest
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2008, 12:22:55 am »
0
Action is harder to manage without a strong union voice. I think Campus life is important, and it's needs funding to exist. (Many student newspapers have been forced to accept private advertising in their magazine just to exist).
 I beleive campus culture contributes to the whole experience of University much more then the markes you recieve.  I understand the argument of the right to choose the services we pay for. However, I think its important that all University students are given the benefits of these services without having to pay for each one individiually. These fees are a small price to pay for the benefits they provide for students.

You want it, you pay for it. Simple. Don't make me to pay for it. Secondly, if these benefits were so good and plentiful, then you have nothing to worry about... unless of course the benefits aren't all that plentiful...

more Federal funds to private schools even though they only educate 35% of Australia's students.

Oh it's interesting you completely ignore STATE funding, but then again they are just only responsible for all STATE schools. Why have you ignored state funding? Because of the simple inconvenient fact that:
If you actually work look at TOTAL government funding, a government school student receives more taxpayer funds than a private school student.

You are not the first person to do this. This is one of those "technically true, but misleading" statements that the government education lobby/AEU trots out all the time.

Howard giving more money to private schools per student then public universities,

Then i suppose you would also oppose giving more money to government schools per student than public universities
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 12:34:35 am by Brendan »

costargh

  • Guest
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2008, 12:31:51 am »
0
hahahahah Jrose is a total idiot

Jrose

  • Victorian
  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Respect: 0
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2008, 10:42:39 am »
0
because I hold a different view from you?

cara.mel

  • Guest
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2008, 11:01:03 am »
0
I dont understand some of the points you make

why would I need to pay $250 to gain a student culture? can't I make friends for free? or to have a life do I need to get pissed at the uni bar every week, because most of what I see is them organising events to take place there/in the campus centre.

I have no interest in what the current student association does and I do not wish to be forced to pay for something I don't support. as others have said, if people found it worth it then they'd support it voluntarily.

Any uni services I need/have used are run independent of the student association anyway.

Eriny

  • The lamp of enlightenment
  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • *******
  • Posts: 2954
  • Respect: +100
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2008, 11:51:12 am »
0
[quote author=coblin link=topic=6837.msg92330#msg92330
And so what if newspapers rely on private advertisment? That is an efficient way to do things. The newspapers benefit from the funding (more importantly, the students who subsidised it benefit the most), and the private advertisers benefit. Is there something wrong with this?
[/quote]
There actually was a problem with that at Melbourne Uni in 2007, I think. In order to fund union events they needed to sell advertising space somewhere. One of the advertisements was sexist or degrading in some way, which made them want to take the advertisement down. But, because the union relied so much on this company, they basically had to compromise their ethics and keep the advertisements. Sexist advertising? Blame VSU!

Not that I care all that much. Before I went to uni, I thought that being a member of the student union would be fun and necessary. Now I know that it's nothing of the sort and the union is full of wankers who just want their CV to look good. In essence, they don't really give a shit about student representation and promote little else but the culture of alcoholism. If they did care, maybe it would be a different story, I don't know. But they just don't.

Collin Li

  • VCE Tutor
  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 4957
  • Respect: +17
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2008, 11:55:14 am »
0
There actually was a problem with that at Melbourne Uni in 2007, I think. In order to fund union events they needed to sell advertising space somewhere. One of the advertisements was sexist or degrading in some way, which made them want to take the advertisement down. But, because the union relied so much on this company, they basically had to compromise their ethics and keep the advertisements. Sexist advertising? Blame VSU!

Well that's the price you pay. The point is that these events do not come without a cost. It is just a matter of who pays them. Is it more effective for the users to pay? Or is it more effective for an advertising agency to pay (and the people who attend to tolerate the advertising)? What we have hopefully already established is that it shouldn't be bystanders that pay.

Jrose

  • Victorian
  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Respect: 0
Re: WTF!!!- Rudd to bring back compulsory Study Unionism in 2009!!!
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2008, 12:12:12 pm »
0
Yeh I was just kind of stirring shit up, I don't agree with VSU but I don't really care that much. Besides, I realise this forum is for people to advertise and gloat about their enter score and how intelligent they are. At least no one is advertising something embarrasing, like I don't know,
liking High School Musical.