Asians and selective schools

[IntoTheNewWorld]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from. However, even with the new selective schools, it is my understanding that the cap is only increased slightly to 5%, and that only around 80% of those chosen are chosen solely on the basis of the entrance examination, with the rest from low socio-economic and aboriginal backgrounds.

I don't believe 5% is enough to cripple a classroom, there must still be enough students who care left in the class for Joe. Not all high performing students want to go to selective schools anyway. The 5% that do get in gain a lot compared to the loss of the schools.

[excal]

ive seen it many times. what im saying is that this environment of pressure makes that hypothetical seem freakishly likely by increasingly reducing children to their future social utility.

Brave New World, lol.

[excal]

I think the question that should be asked (and brendan has already raised this point) is:

'Should you be forced to help someone else at your own detriment?'

[brendan]

http://timharford.com/2009/01/what-lessons-can-schools-learn-from-streaming-by-ability/

[mtwtfss]

^
thats all well and good. but what about those average students who will siffer from being around kids that dont care about those studies? what about the average joe who wants to do well, but is constantly distracted by his peers? joe, who lacks the motivation and skills he needs to do well becuse he is not pushed by his peers to do well. afterall, they dont care. and he is a nerd for actually giving a shit about his studies.

Plenty of kids from that situation get into MHS/MacRob.

[brendan]

Yeah I can see where you're coming from. However, even with the new selective schools, it is my understanding that the cap is only increased slightly to 5%, and that only around 80% of those chosen are chosen solely on the basis of the entrance examination, with the rest from low socio-economic and aboriginal backgrounds.

I don't believe 5% is enough to cripple a classroom, there must still be enough students who care left in the class for Joe. Not all high performing students want to go to selective schools anyway. The 5% that do get in gain a lot compared to the loss of the schools.

There shouldn't be a cap in the first place.

[brendan]

what about those average students who will siffer from being around kids that dont care about those studies? what about the average joe who wants to do well, but is constantly distracted by his peers?

What's your point? I don't think anyone has any right to be force other people to be their classmates.

[Mao]

^
thats all well and good. but what about those average students who will siffer from being around kids that dont care about those studies? what about the average joe who wants to do well, but is constantly distracted by his peers? joe, who lacks the motivation and skills he needs to do well becuse he is not pushed by his peers to do well. afterall, they dont care. and he is a nerd for actually giving a shit about his studies.

Why should high achieving students have duty to help the 'average joe' by giving motivation/pushing? Those with ambitions should have the choice to move on to better places, and that choice should become available to everyone, hence why more selective schools are being built. When assessing the negative consequences, you may need to keep in mind that the 'average joe' is not necessarily entitled to have better students pushing him on, it is not their responsibility.

[bubble sunglasses]

  ^Yep. If Rietie is enchanting to everyone in and around Northcote, should she then be inhibited from moving somewhere else if she chooses?

[Electioneering]

If Joe wants to do well in his studies, then he shouldn't allow himself to be distracted by his peers. It's not difficult. If he lacks motivation then that's his own fault; he doesn't want to do well at all.

In my experience, in Year 12 at least, the students who had no motivation to study certainly didn't waltz around in sombreros, waving maracas and distracting everyone else with song and dance. They simply sat at the back of the classroom and did [whatever] in silence. It's not a matter of 'studying', but rather common courtesy. Nearly everyone is or are approaching the age of 18. If they can't sit still in a class for 75 minutes whilst respecting the rights of others, they are simply a poor excuse of a human being.

[shonakennedy]

hey dont stress i was only offering an alternate view of things. and you would be pleasantly surprised how much difference your peers make. as we all know im from the country. here everyone goes to tafe or gets a job after school. even the teachers dont push us that hard. and i know i would have dont tonnes better if i had been around people who actually listened to the teacher who didbt have to yell at them every two seconds to stfu. i would have given anything to go to a school closer to the city just so as i could actually feel the pressure and tension. of course that is selfish and i have no right to rely on any student to help me perform. i have nothing against selective schools. they are a great idea for those who want to excell. i guess i just know what its like to be in a situation where i was alone and distracted, no matter how hard i tried.