Olmert: Israel has no interest in a prolonged war in Gaza

[osmoister]

Hamas- Holds Parliament, Prime-ministerial position as well as Gaza.
Fatah- Holds the Presidency and the West Bank

Hamas were not thrown out of  the West Bank. The only reason they hold Gaza is because they took it an armed conflict.

there was no hamas or fatah holding west bank or gaza, fatah took power, ended parliament ( made their own later on), and hamas were TARGETED AND THROWN OUT of the west bank

[osmoister]

Hamas targets civilians deliberately  and places it's own targets beneath kindergartens and hospitals.
Israel targets terrorists and undeniably kills civillians accidently in the process.
I think you can see a difference.

i see that gaza has nearly 1.5 million people in a very small area of land. any target and i mean any will kill civilians

[suenoga]

[
quote author=osmoister link=topic=9385.msg120172#msg120172 date=1230815976]

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Could you please clarify?

point one
fatah were terrorists just like hamas, yet israel dosen't treat them the same way. the al-axha brigade have killed more israelis than hamas, yet they're not the main tagret.

point two
israeli army kill more civilians than hamas. don't try to pass them off as heroes whilst hamas are the 'bad guys'
[/quote]

Point one: Hamas are the major Palestinian terrorist organization. The brigade no longer has the same influence as they used to. I don't know where you got your who has killed more figures from. Fatah WERE terrorists as you said, and still have some extremists among them. However, Hamas are clearly more extreme and more of a threat to the Jewish State.

2- Hamas  deliberately kills civilians. That's my definition of a "bad guy". The issue is not so black and white as to say Israel kills more civilians then Hamas therefore they are worse.

[suenoga]

Hamas- Holds Parliament, Prime-ministerial position as well as Gaza.
Fatah- Holds the Presidency and the West Bank

Hamas were not thrown out of  the West Bank. The only reason they hold Gaza is because they took it an armed conflict.

there was no hamas or fatah holding west bank or gaza, fatah took power, ended parliament ( made their own later on), and were TARGETED AND THROWN OUT of the west bank

what?! thrown about by who. Are you talking about recent times?

[osmoister]

Then I would contend that that viewpoint is most naive, when clearly every Israeli target in this war has been a Hamas installation of some kind. Civilians are extremely regrettable collateral damage, but Hamas leaves Israel no choice. "Kill or be killed", as the saying goes. And it so tragically applies here.

clearly you didn't see the images of the university or the mosque being destroyed by the israeli fighters. very naive from you're viewpoint i might add. i think the saying in this situation would be better phrased as '' kill heaps more of them or be killed", told from an israeli view.

[enwiabe]

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here. Could you please clarify?

point one
fatah were terrorists just like hamas, yet israel dosen't treat them the same way. the al-axha brigade have killed more israelis than hamas, yet they're not the main tagret.

point two
israeli army kill more civilians than hamas. don't try to pass them off as heroes whilst hamas are the 'bad guys'

You have a clear flaw in your logic that I have pin-pointed. You seem to think that this is a revenge game. That Israel are "paying Hamas back" for their killing.

This is not a payback thing. This is a preventative measure. They are attempting to stifle the rocketfire into Israel from Hamas.

Hamas are the threat of the HERE and NOW. They are what's going to be killing Israelis if they are not stopped. Israeli is putitng a stop to Hamas for the threat that they CURRENTLY pose.

Fatah and Al-axha were terrorists of years past. If they can be brought to justice via the legal system, then they will. Until then, they pose no current threat and are not of major concern.

It's as simple as that.

Re: point two

Whilst Israel may have killed more civilians than Hamas, the only reason that Hamas has not killed more civilians is that they simply do not have the means. Meshaal wants to wipe Israel off the map and kill all its citizens. Israel wants to rid Palestine of its Hamas scourge and give the Palestinian people a workable two-state solution. You tell me who the real villain is.

[suenoga]

Then I would contend that that viewpoint is most naive, when clearly every Israeli target in this war has been a Hamas installation of some kind. Civilians are extremely regrettable collateral damage, but Hamas leaves Israel no choice. "Kill or be killed", as the saying goes. And it so tragically applies here.

clearly you didn't see the images of the university or the mosque being destroyed by the israeli fighters. very naive from you're viewpoint i might add. i think the saying in this situation would be better phrased as '' kill heaps more of them or be killed", told from an israeli view.

What would  you suggest Israel do?  Doing nothing would leave people in the south  of the country living in a state of constant fear.

[osmoister]

Point one: Hamas are the major Palestinian terrorist organization. The brigade no longer has the same influence as they used to. I don't know where you got your who has killed more figures from. Fatah WERE terrorists as you said, and still have some extremists among them. However, Hamas are clearly more extreme and more of a threat to the Jewish State.

2- Hamas  deliberately kills civilians. That's my definition of a "bad guy". The issue is not so black and white as to say Israel kills more civilians then Hamas therefore they are worse.

2. the israeli army deliberately kills civilians. much more than hamas does. if you think hamas are the bad boys, than the israeli army are the biggest bunch of bad boys.

1. they are terrorists as you say, but if you ask the civilians of palestine, israel are the ultimate terrorists. unseeable, unfightable and with far superior firepower

[suenoga]

[
2. the israeli army deliberately kills civilians. much more than hamas does. if you think hamas are the bad boys, than the isralei army are the biggest bunch of bad boys.

That is a Lie. Where did you get that information from?

[osmoister]

What would  you suggest Israel do?  Doing nothing would leave people in the south  of the country living in a state of constant fear.

of course, they don't care about the palestinian people. all they care about is the people in southern israel. who cares if 100 or so recently, and many more civilians before are killed right?

[osmoister]

[
2. the israeli army deliberately kills civilians. much more than hamas does. if you think hamas are the bad boys, than the isralei army are the biggest bunch of bad boys.

That is a Lie. Where did you get that information from?

the 100 or so bodies lying dead in gaza

[osmoister]

Whilst Israel may have killed more civilians than Hamas, the only reason that Hamas has not killed more civilians is that they simply do not have the means. Hassan Nasrallah wants to wipe Israel off the map and kill all its citizens. Israel wants to rid Palestine of its Hamas scourge and give the Palestinian people a workable two-state solution. You tell me who the real villain is.

the real villain is the nation who attempts to kill, wipe off or 'rid' the party that was democratically elected by the palestinian people.

[suenoga]

the 100 or so bodies lying dead in gaza
[/quote]

Who were tragically but accidentally killed. Wake up to yourself! Israel targets terrorists. Hamas target civilians. I'm not saying Israel is perfect but they have the right to protect their citizens.

[suenoga]

Whilst Israel may have killed more civilians than Hamas, the only reason that Hamas has not killed more civilians is that they simply do not have the means. Hassan Nasrallah wants to wipe Israel off the map and kill all its citizens. Israel wants to rid Palestine of its Hamas scourge and give the Palestinian people a workable two-state solution. You tell me who the real villain is.

the real villain is the nation who attempts to kill, wipe off or 'rid' the party that was democratically elected by the palestinian people.
hamas are a threat to israel as you suggest, but israel is a far worse target threat.

Who are Israel a "threat" to?. Do you think Israel would be in gaza if Hamas had not continued firing rockets across the border?

[enwiabe]

Whilst Israel may have killed more civilians than Hamas, the only reason that Hamas has not killed more civilians is that they simply do not have the means. Hassan Nasrallah wants to wipe Israel off the map and kill all its citizens. Israel wants to rid Palestine of its Hamas scourge and give the Palestinian people a workable two-state solution. You tell me who the real villain is.

the real villain is the nation who attempts to kill, wipe off or 'rid' the party that was democratically elected by the palestinian people.
hamas are a threat to israel as you suggest, but israel is a far worse target threat.

You still didn't address my point from before.

Hitler was democratically elected, do you think Britain going to war with Germany and killing civilians in their airstrikes was unjustified, given Hitler's military actions?

It's the SAME situation in Gaza.

Hamas was elected to power, and has used that power to wage war on Israel. Israel has every right to wipe out such a vile terrorist organisation.