Olmert: Israel has no interest in a prolonged war in Gaza

[suenoga]

"someone mentioned that "intention" is important, i don't think it is. if you walk to the shops to buy bread, you inevitably will wear down your shoes a little bit. Though people do not ordinarily "intend" to wear down their shoes, it is a reasonably foreseeable consequence. A civilian death is a civilian death."



A civilian death is always tragic.  However, one can not look at the numbers of casualties (the Israeli army has killed more Palestinians then Hamas has killed Israeli's) and say "oh that makes Israel worse then Hamas". That's simply ignoring the facts of the situation. .

[brendan]

Subjective intentions is a completely flawed metric to judge the morality of action, what matters is the consequence of the actions. And if you take a civilian death to be a negative consequence, and assuming that statistic you refer to is correct, it does not show the Israeli Govt in a very good light.

[suenoga]

It's true. And it's a tragedy that so many innocent Palestinians have lost their lives. The only way to stop the conflict is the creation of a two-state solution. Unfortunately, with Hamas (a terrorist organization) in power, this aim is impossible. Israel does not have a perfect human rights record, but their army adheres to a strong set of ethics. Deliberate targeting of civilians usually results in inquires and investigations. The army protects Israelis whilst Hamas perpetuates war.

[brendan]

Got invited to this by my Liberal friends on fb:

Pro-Israel rally:
http://www.facebook.com/inbox/?ref=mb#/event.php?eid=42331662478

[suenoga]

That rally will turn into a demonstration about why Israel is always right and all  Arabs are evil

[bubble sunglasses]

 "Subjective intentions is a completely flawed metric to judge the morality of action, what matters is the consequence of the actions. And if you take a civilian death to be a negative consequence, and assuming that statistic you refer to is correct, it does not show the Israeli Govt in a very good light."

 I agree, however, as enwiabe intimated, the context of an action [as well as its consequences] is important in judging its morality.

[Matt The Rat]

Got invited to this by my Liberal friends on fb:

Pro-Israel rally:
http://www.facebook.com/inbox/?ref=mb#/event.php?eid=42331662478

I've heard of a Pro-Palestine rally being held this Sunday too. State Library at 2pm.

[brendan]

Israel's Policy Is Perfectly 'Proportionate'
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123085925621747981.html

[osmoister]

hamas appeals for ceasefire in gaza
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24864396-2703,00.html

israels supreme court rules gaza open for press
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24864396-2703,00.html

claims that an aide boat was "rammed and shot by an israeli boat"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7804554.stm

[enwiabe]

I think that article about the free press in Gaza is an excellent testimony to the democracy of Israel. It works so well that the supreme court can overrule the army and its commander-in-chief (Prime Minister Ehud Olmert), even during a time of war.

[suenoga]

I think that article about the free press in Gaza is an excellent testimony to the democracy of Israel. It works so well that the supreme court can overrule the army and its commander-in-chief (Prime Minister Ehud Olmert), even during a time of war.

That's true.  Israel is the only true democracy in the middle east.
The article about Hamas wanting a truce makes me laugh. They refused to agree to a truce before the incursion began and continued firing rockets at civillians. Now they want a truce, but are not willing to stop firing rockets until Israel pulls out.

[osmoister]

I think that article about the free press in Gaza is an excellent testimony to the democracy of Israel. It works so well that the supreme court can overrule the army and its commander-in-chief (Prime Minister Ehud Olmert), even during a time of war.

certainly. lets just hope that this doesn't reoccur in the process

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5543s_israeli-tank-kills-reuters-camerama_news

[suenoga]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5543s_israeli-tank-kills-reuters-camerama_news
[/quote]
I hope al-jazeera isn't your only source of news for the Israeli-Arab conflict.

[brendan]

Got invited to this by my Liberal friends on fb:

Pro-Israel rally:
http://www.facebook.com/inbox/?ref=mb#/event.php?eid=42331662478

Speakers who will address the rally:

Dr Colin Rubenstein, Executive Director, Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council
Senator Mitch Fifield, Liberal Senator for Victoria
Michael Danby MP, Federal Labor Member for Melbourne Ports
Dr Danny Lamm, President, Zionist Council of Victoria

[suenoga]

Micheal Danby and Danny Lamm are both ridiculous.  They are blindly pro-Israel.  Throw that in with a Liberal Senator and you got one  hell of an Arab-sluring party