Connex Concession Fine

[costargh]

BUT THE VALIDATION GATES AT DANDY WERE BROKEN FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME IN THE LAST 2 MONTHS (LIKE FOR 3 WEEKS OR SOMETHING!!!)

Don't pay and appeal again!!! As your English tutor I can write you an appeal letter

[gregi]

Ill pay someone $10 to write me good excuse

[ninwa]

lol. I got a $167 fine for my ticket being 20 mins expired =(

Im an unemployed student whose parents will not give me $$$. How can I get out of it besides appeal?

I got a fine for not having a validated ticket, when the validation gates and Dande weren't working! :@
I appealed the fine, but i got a letter saying that the ticket inspectors account of the story was different to mine..therefore i had to still pay the $167 . . . .good bye new shoes

No don't take that! Appeal again. What did you say in your letter? Again like I said before, it helps if you can mention some legal stuff in it.

[beezy4eva]

I had a fine for being on a concession ticket without having my concession card on me. They copied my name down wrong, so I didn't pay it, just sent it back saying no one by that name lives here.

[humph]

I thought that it was fairly easy to get out of infringements directly to the inspector. Just pretend that you are ignorant and very sorry (it helps to have a student card from an interstate tertiary institution). Also be as quiet and scared looking as possible.

The interstate concession card is a bit hit and miss. I've seen female friends get away with it doing the whole ignorant and scared thing, but they're also pretty quick to fine people.

[dcc]

Things to do when you are caught without a concession card (these have all worked for me):

1.  Pretend you are foreign and do not speak english. Ideally speak French with a disgusting accent.  Ticket inspectors wont bother if they can't even understand you.

2.  Pretend you are younger then you are.  I once said I was 14 when I was 16. (At 14, you dont need a 'concession card' to get concession fares).  This ONLY works if you pretend that you dont know concession cards exist.  For example, this guy said 'Can I see your concession card please?' so I said 'Concession Card?' and the guy (predictably) said 'How old are you?'. '14', and he pisses off without another word.  Fare evasion successful.

3.  Run when you see them. (Does not work on long express trips i.e. Jolimont to Clifton Hill)

[Eriny]

2.  Pretend you are younger then you are.  I once said I was 14 when I was 16. (At 14, you dont need a 'concession card' to get concession fares).  This ONLY works if you pretend that you dont know concession cards exist.  For example, this guy said 'Can I see your concession card please?' so I said 'Concession Card?' and the guy (predictably) said 'How old are you?'. '14', and he pisses off without another word.  Fare evasion successful.

This should be easier now that you don't need a concession card until you turn 17.

[Fyrefly]

There's no way to get out of a fine except by appeal.

One excuse you could give is that the ticket machine at your station only accepted change and you only had notes - I don't think you can be fined for that, I believe there is a court case which supports this, if that's the path you want to take I'll have a look around for the case.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting you lie to the Department of Infrastructure, but Connex are bastards and their fines are bloody disproportionate to the crime.

I recall this case as well.
I think it was 1 of the solicitors @ volunteering who mentioned it 2 me...

[ninwa]

Mounsey v Lafayette [2002] VSC 342

[Fyrefly]

There's no way to get out of a fine except by appeal.

One excuse you could give is that the ticket machine at your station only accepted change and you only had notes - I don't think you can be fined for that, I believe there is a court case which supports this, if that's the path you want to take I'll have a look around for the case.

Disclaimer: I am not suggesting you lie to the Department of Infrastructure, but Connex are bastards and their fines are bloody disproportionate to the crime.

I recall this case as well.
I think it was 1 of the solicitors @ volunteering who mentioned it 2 me...

Mounsey v Lafayette [2002] VSC 342...?

I'm pretty sure that you would have 2g further than jst "Oh, I had notes but no coins for the coin-operated ticket machine" to prove that "reasonable steps" had been taken to purchase a valid ticket, as per s.221(2) of the Transport Act 1983.

Just glancing over the case, the magistrate decided in favour of the defendant in the original case (Lafayette - the guy without a ticket).
However, the Supreme Court overruled the magistrate's decision - they basically said that the magistrate was mistaken in which party he placed the burden of proof on, along with some flawed reasoning.

The niche with this case is not whether Lafayette had taken reasonable steps to purchase a ticket, but whether he was going to.
Lafayette said he intended to purchase a ticket once he got to Parliament Station, because it was only after he got onto the tram that he realised he only had coins.
He carried legal tender in the form of notes with him, which supported his story.
However, he was not given the chance to fulfill his intentions before he was pulled up by the inspection officers.

Take a look @ s.221(2) of the Transport Act 1983:

  (2) A person may make a journey in a carriage, or be on land or premises for entry to which a ticket is required, without a ticket if-

(a) prior to commencing the journey or entering that land or those premises he takes all reasonable steps to purchase a ticket;  and

(b) while making the journey or being on that land or those premises he has no reasonable opportunity to purchase a ticket;  and

(c) on completion of the journey or on leaving that land or those premises he takes all reasonable steps to purchase a ticket.

As I understand it, the magistrate thought s.221(2)(a) to be slightly irrelevant, because it was reasonable for Lafayette to assume he could buy a ticket on board, as per s.221(2)(b).
When it came to light that he could not "reasonably" do so, he proceeded according to s.221(2)(c) but was not allowed the chance to complete the action of buying a ticket.

The magistrate placed the burden of proof on Mounsey - "Prove he wasn't going to buy a ticket".
However, the Supreme Court did not agree with the magistrate's reasoning - they said it was flawed.
Ultimately they decided that an intention to buy a ticket was not enough to constitute a valid defence, and that the coin-operated machine on the tram amounted to a "reasonable opportunity" for Lafayette to buy a ticket while making his journey.

So unless it was midnight and there was no-one you could ask for change, and there were only coin-operated machines, and you had notes in your pocket then I don't think that argument would work. You'll have to go about another way of proving that all reasonable steps had been taken before, during and after the journey to buy a ticket. Also, having a disability might help... *Shrugs*

Nina, or some1 else smarter than me may b able 2 provide a more favourable interpretation.
I didn't bother reading the whole case, but that's my take on it anywayz.


Edit: I didn't bother 2 refresh the page since my last post... didn't c ur post Nina. XD

[gregi]

Ok $20 for an excuse.....

[excal]

Mounsey v Lafayette [2002] VSC 342

The case is not necessarily valid (at least in parts) anymore as the Transport (Ticketing) Regulations 2006 were enacted to address shortcomings resulting from the case.

[excal]

lol. I got a $167 fine for my ticket being 20 mins expired =(

Im an unemployed student whose parents will not give me $$$. How can I get out of it besides appeal?

I got a fine for not having a validated ticket, when the validation gates and Dande weren't working! :@
I appealed the fine, but i got a letter saying that the ticket inspectors account of the story was different to mine..therefore i had to still pay the $167 . . . .good bye new shoes

This could be an interesting test case for the application of regulation 13 in the Transport (Ticketing) Regulations 2006...

Defence in relation to entry to a designated area
(1) It is a defence to a charge under regulation 6(2)
or 8(2) that the person charged—
(a) before entering the designated area, took all
reasonable steps that were available—
(i) to purchase a ticket for that entry; and
(ii) to carry out any additional actions
necessary for the ticket to be made
valid for that entry; and
(b) while being in the designated area, had no
reasonable opportunity—
(i) to purchase a ticket for that entry to the
designated area and, if any additional
actions were necessary for the ticket to
be made valid for that entry, to carry
out those actions; or
(ii) to carry out any additional actions
necessary for a ticket in the possession
of the person to be made valid for that
entry to the designated area; and
(c) on leaving the designated area, without delay
took all reasonable steps that were
available—
(i) to purchase a ticket for that entry to the
designated area and, if any additional
actions were necessary for the ticket to
be made valid for that entry, to carry
out those actions; or
(ii) to carry out any additional actions
necessary for a ticket in the possession
of the person to be made valid for that
entry to the designated area.
(2) For the purposes of subregulation (1), if a person,
while being in a designated area referred to in that
subregulation, at the first reasonable
opportunity—
(a) purchased a ticket for that entry to the
designated area and, if any additional actions
were necessary for the ticket to be made
valid for that entry, carried out those actions;
or
(b) carried out any additional actions necessary
for a ticket in the possession of the person to
be made valid for that entry to the designated
area—
the requirements of paragraphs (b) and (c) of that
subregulation are deemed to have been satisfied.

I'm not too sure how (1)(b)(ii) or (1)(c)(ii) could be relevant given the practical setup of stations.
Where's my $20?

[gregi]

Umm i dont understand?

[the_head]

I got out of a fine for not having a concession card by just getting one after my fine came in the mail and mailing them a photocopy with a letter just sucking up to them saying i won't do it again. All I got was an 'official warning'