ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => 2014 => Results Discussion => Victoria => 2011 => Topic started by: Russ on December 15, 2011, 09:17:45 am
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First up: read this thread
This is the place to discuss how you went, congratulate other people on their results, and generally talk about the release of ATARs and/or individual scores.
Also, check out this thread for a collection of AN results :)
And let me be the first to congratulate everyone on finishing year 12, it's a big achievement!
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ok my friend on fb just posted her atar score and that there are at least 15 others in her school who got over 90?
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ok my friend on fb just posted her atar score and that there are at least 15 others in her school who got over 90?
Wait is this VCE?
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ok my friend on fb just posted her atar score and that there are at least 15 others in her school who got over 90?
careers teachers do indeed have them, so she must've got it from them...which is illegal, but the only way possible.
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ok my friend on fb just posted her atar score and that there are at least 15 others in her school who got over 90?
careers teachers do indeed have them, so she must've got it from them...which is illegal, but the only way possible.
+1, only careers teachers should have them atm :(
Could be a massive troll, someone did that from MHS and fooled several people
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Apparently our teachers dont find out our study scores till midday tomorrow, is this true?
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Apparently our teachers dont find out our study scores till midday tomorrow, is this true?
correct, spoke to mine today. The school get it when we do tomorrow at 7 I think, but collation has to be done or something like that so it takes a couple of hours before they see them...
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Apparently our teachers dont find out our study scores till midday tomorrow, is this true?
Nah that's all the statistical information regarding how their students went on each exam, which we don't ever have access to
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ok my friend on fb just posted her atar score and that there are at least 15 others in her school who got over 90?
I will put money that she's trolling
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Or she could be talking about her HSC- maybe she's in NSW. They got their results today.
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ohhh maybe shes doing HSC... maybe thats it :)
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Apparently our teachers dont find out our study scores till midday tomorrow, is this true?
Depends on the school I think. My mate went to see his methods teacher this week and she said they receive our results at 10am tomorrow.
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Can't wait for my results!! less than 12 hours left :O
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10 hours and 40 minutes.... 640 minutes... 38400 seconds and counting
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good luck peeps! i hope everyone gets the score they want...and if not, there are plenty of other ways to get into your desired course. :)
i'll be up bright and early to share all your successes! ONLY 8 HOURS TO GO!!!
P.S. You should totally all pull all nighters :p
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Do our teachers and careers teachers actually get our ATAR scores and study scores? I thought they only received statistical data? :\
Also, can our school find out what ATAR score we received?
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good luck guys!!!!
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good luck guys!!!!
YEAH!!!
The final hour. All the best guys!!! :)
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OMG, IT'S UP GUYS!
Okay, just the site. :/
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OMG, IT'S UP GUYS!
Okay, just the site. :/
scared the shit out of me.
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Psych [50]
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WonderBunny -
98.65 -
Eng Lang - 46
Latin - 33
Philosophy - 43
Classics - 37
increment for previous TAFE study - 4.5
2nd increment - 4.5
Sweet as result! WELL DONE!
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So happy right now... :P
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Pretty sure Thushan is like the new Derrick Ha!!!
Also, congrats luke! :)
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does anyone know when abouts scholarship offers are made?
and congrats everyone :)
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Congrats to everyone =D
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Are the study scores online raw or scaled?
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YES! 99,95 :D
AN, you dudes have been awesome throughout the year and kept my motivation up throughout the year, even when i burnt out. You guys are part of the reason why I managed to get through Year 12 without collapsing in the first place. You've been brilliant, and I can't thank you guys enough.
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Are the study scores online raw or scaled?
If you click "view your vce results" they are raw.
If you click "view your atar" it has your atar as well as the scaled scores
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Do you guys reckon the english examiners marked harshly this year?? Cos i thought i did relatively well in the exam but to see what i got as an exam score was like a punch in the face....
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realy happy with 99.7
stoked, i got a umat of 92, so hopefully ill get an interview for monash!
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How do I go about finding my legal score scaled? I have the RAW score but not scaled, as I don't complete my ATAR until next year.
Also, just to double check - subjects are scaled the year they were completed in, not the year you get your ATAR, right?
Help appreciated :)
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WELL DONE SSNAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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realy happy with 99.7
stoked, i got a umat of 92, so hopefully ill get an interview for monash!
if you don't i'd say you have every right to go down there and trash the place.
Nice work mate! CONGRATS!!!
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What does a 43 raw in Methods scaled up to?
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Around 400 people were hitting atarcalc.com simultaneously, which was the limit on my server for maximum number of people that could be connected at once. I've increased that now :P
Good luck everyone!
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realy happy with 99.7
stoked, i got a umat of 92, so hopefully ill get an interview for monash!
Got 99.35, but hope I'll scrape an interview too!
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What does a 43 raw in Methods scaled up to?
46.8 according to atarcalc
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CONGRATS ISTAFA AND SAMAD!
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Bus Man: A+ A+ A+ SS=41
Did i get jibbed?
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Bus Man: A+ A+ A+ SS=41
Did i get jibbed?
The lowest you can get with 3xA+ is 39, so probably not
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Thanks PI, hopefully u get interview!!!! :) ;)
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Bus Man: A+ A+ A+ SS=41
Did i get jibbed?
The lowest you can get with 3xA+ is 39, so probably not
K, thanks for clearing that up.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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Perhaps everyone else knows this but I only found it - for those doing 3/4's in Year 11 and wanting to know scaling, via VTAC's 2011 scaling report:
http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/scaling_report.pdf
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Perhaps everyone else knows this but I only found it - for those doing 3/4's in Year 11 and wanting to know scaling, via VTAC's 2011 scaling report:
http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/scaling_report.pdf
^ That's where the data for the ATAR Calculator comes from :)
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Oh has it been updated for 2011 already? My bad :/
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Does anyone know how the VETS are scaling? If I have a 36 scaled what would my raw have been?
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From the ATAR/SS disclaimer:
Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that the information is accurate, the Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and the Victorian Tertiary Admissions Centre will not accept any liability for any loss or damage which may be incurred by any person acting in reliance upon the information.
:o
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From the ATAR/SS disclaimer:
Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that the information is accurate, the Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and the Victorian Tertiary Admissions Centre will not accept any liability for any loss or damage which may be incurred by any person acting in reliance upon the information.
:o
WTF?, how do we make sure its accurate?
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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meh 99.90..
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english 35, methods 37, chemistry 33, physics 34, biology 36
Study Score 92.1
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97.45 with a 28 in viet (LOLOL BHAHAHAHA)
So happy :)
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meh 99.90..
meh, FRIGGEN AWESOME!!!! There isn't a single course you can't get into. Well done. Seriously.
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From the ATAR/SS disclaimer:
Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that the information is accurate, the Victorian Curriculum and Assessment Authority and the Victorian Tertiary Admissions Centre will not accept any liability for any loss or damage which may be incurred by any person acting in reliance upon the information.
:o
WTF?, how do we make sure its accurate?
Wait for the hard-copy, I guess?
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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meh 99.90..
meh, FRIGGEN AWESOME!!!! There isn't a single course you can't get into. Well done. Seriously.
Yeah, I'd be stoked...
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also 2011 aggregate table is out
http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/aggregate-ATAR.pdf
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81.00 lol thought illd get 65
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81.00 lol thought illd get 65
CONGRATS! Nice surprise then! :)
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Cut off for 99.95 was 210.8 :O
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Cut off for 99.95 was 210.8 :O
probably due to the increased spesh scaling
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Cut off for 99.95 was 210.8 :O
probably due to the increased spesh scaling
Yeah true I 'spose.
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nah it was 207.7, 210.8 was what the highest person got i think
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nah min 210.8 for 99,95!!
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my aggregate was 204.1
DAMN YOU ENGLISH
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Bus Man: A+ A+ A+ SS=41
Did i get jibbed?
3xA+ for studio arts as well and only a 40, we're on the same boat. :(
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Bus Man: A+ A+ A+ SS=41
Did i get jibbed?
Yeah, busman was tough this year! I got a+, a+ and a, and got a 38! and i thought busman was my best
But meh, did way better on everything else, so who cares, wooo!
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Does anyone know how the VETS are scaling? If I have a 36 scaled what would my raw have been?
i did vet hospitality last year and it got scaled down by six. you should check the stat table for this year.
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Bus Man: A+ A+ A+ SS=41
Did i get jibbed?
Yeah, busman was tough this year! I got a+, a+ and a, and got a 38! and i thought busman was my best
But meh, did way better on everything else, so who cares, wooo!
yeah, second year study design is the worst! well done though. :)
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lol what the fuck spesh from 35 goes to 47, that's LOLLLLL. my 36 went to 43.5 last year :(
grats everyone
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Heard about a few Melbourne Grammar kids who got aggregates of around 220, just quietly...
(why am I awake? Because I've been getting phone calls from students since 7am :p)
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Heard about a few Melbourne Grammar kids who got aggregates of around 220, just quietly...
(why am I awake? Because I've been getting phone calls from students since 7am :p)
Bloody latin...
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my mate: ESL 44, Spesh 50 Methods 50 Chem 50 Physics 50 Uni maths 5.5 ALL RAW. only 99.90 awks.
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Did other people find atar calcs predictions of their scores to be very different also?
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wow wtf spesh scaled so high
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am i going crazy or is there not a +1 option in this thread?
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there isnt one for me either
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wow wtf spesh scaled so high
I know! 40 -> 50.6!
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am i going crazy or is there not a +1 option in this thread?
For a reason, don't want ppl to get random respect just for stating ATAR or SS ;)
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I feel terrible....
Below my pre-requisites
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I feel terrible....
Below my pre-requisites
Hey, dw bout it. There is always a back door. I don't even think I got into the course I wanted to. Seriously, it may seem bad now but in the end, then ATAR doesn't count for much.
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Hey, Thanks.
I have parents who see ATAR as an indication of how smart you are.
:(
I have no idea what to do. :(
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a+ a+ a+ BM and i got a 42.... -sigh and to make things worse it scales to <40
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Hey, Thanks.
I have parents who see ATAR as an indication of how smart you are.
:(
I have no idea what to do. :(
Tell them what you got and explain to them what it means. Remember, a 50 means you did better than 50% of the other people. Remind your parents of this fact. Then, see your school's career counsellor and see what they can do for you.
BTW: Spesh scaled crazy but so did French my 33 went to a 44.13. That's more than I remember ever.
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Heard about a few Melbourne Grammar kids who got aggregates of around 220, just quietly...
(why am I awake? Because I've been getting phone calls from students since 7am :p)
Bloody latin...
Latin. Trust.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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When do graded assessments go up?!
I wanna look nowwwwww
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Would also like to know when VCAA publishes their assessment reports for the exams :)
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Would also like to know when VCAA publishes their assessment reports for the exams :)
Assessment reports take ages. Won't be out for another couple months. (March I think)
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where do i find all the GA stuff for each subjects??? like how many marks you needed to get a certain grade..
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Hey guys. I'm in Year 11, so will the 2 subjects that I did this year be scaled based on this year's scaling, or next year's?
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Hey guys. I'm in Year 11, so will the 2 subjects that I did this year be scaled based on this year's scaling, or next year's?
it will get scaled on this year's scaling, but you will only find out the scaling next year, when you get your atar. but you can work it out from the year 12s this year, and the scaling report :)
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For all of you happy and stoked ATARnotians, here's some awesome celebratory music ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIWIoggb2Q&list=PLAB2CF6F0F2CAF5B3&index=16&feature=plpp_video
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For all of you happy and stoked ATARnotians, here's some awesome celebratory music ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIWIoggb2Q&list=PLAB2CF6F0F2CAF5B3&index=16&feature=plpp_video
Epic music is epic. :)
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I'm happy with Methods 43, but what the heck, Accounting 49?!?! Where's my 50?!?! :(
How annoying is it! So close... so close
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Are the results on the resultsandatar website raw or scaled for year 11s?
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Congratulations to everyone!
(@Thushan, I think we all predicted this, haha, well done mate)
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Are the results on the resultsandatar website raw or scaled for year 11s?
Raw.
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Are the results on the resultsandatar website raw or scaled for year 11s?
Should be raw (ie. no decimals)
edit: beaten
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Sweet, thanks random and pi
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Sweet, thanks random and pi
They have both. The decimal ones with your ATAR are the scaled ones, the ones that just say VCE results are raw.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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vvhhhyyy werent my sac marks scaled up????? A A A+
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vvhhhyyy werent my sac marks scaled up????? A A A+
Depends on the cohort strength and performance. What school btw?
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macrob
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Congrats everyone! Insanely high scores all round. Looking at you Thushan!
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Congrats everyone. :)
Anyone getting SoM's for their subjects?
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does any 1 know the link to see results online? e.g herald sun acheivers? for subjects?
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does any 1 know the link to see results online? e.g herald sun acheivers? for subjects?
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I'm happy with Methods 43, but what the heck, Accounting 49?!?! Where's my 50?!?! :(
I stole it sorry
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does any 1 know the link to see results online? e.g herald sun acheivers? for subjects?
Hasn't come out yet. From memory it will be published in the paper on Tuesday (or Monday).
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Might be in tomorrow's Age too
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Didn't we get similar exam marks? I must have just missed on the 50 then...
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Congrats everyone. :)
Anyone getting SoM's for their subjects?
could this be bought online? im overseas at the moment, i dont know how the process is going to work.
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Anyone getting SoM's for their subjects?
Maybe english, just to see where I went well/badly
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For Psych
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Sorry to bring down the AN median
As long as you tried your best, the median means nothing!
Grats on further!
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Sorry to bring down the AN median
As long as you tried your best, the median means nothing!
Grats on further!
Lol thanks bud, bit shattered, was hoping for a 45, really want to check those SoE's. Curious though, given that some subjects have two exams and others have one, do i need to pay double as if each exam for further, 1 and 2 are seperate.
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Congrats everyone. :)
Anyone getting SoM's for their subjects?
Yup, Further Math.
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Do we have a 'what course are you doing into thread' or something similar?
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Do we have a 'what course are you doing into thread' or something similar?
Monash sms'ed me a "excellence and equity" scholarship!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!! All the hard work paid off.
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some of you ppl have no fucking considerations for others - especially the person who typed - "49?!?! Where's my 50?!?! :'( ", have a nice life with a fucked ego ay...
Haha he was probably just kidding. I'm super happy with my 49 but ahh the bragging rights a 50 would have brought! Lol
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Do we have a 'what course are you doing into thread' or something similar?
Monash sms'ed me a "excellence and equity" scholarship!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!! All the hard work paid off.
:/ didnt realise you had to apply directly with monash rather than VTAC. Applying this weekend...
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What happens if i find out that the teacher has incorrectly put in my sac marks? For accounting he put A but i got A+'s in my sacs, so is there any point in telling him, are they able to change this???
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Do we have a 'what course are you doing into thread' or something similar?
Monash sms'ed me a "excellence and equity" scholarship!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!! All the hard work paid off.
:/ didnt realise you had to apply directly with monash rather than VTAC. Applying this weekend...
I just rang monash up, you dont need to apply directly with monash, our VTAC application takes care of it.
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I got between 40 and 43 in biol ( heheh) , and I was wondering whether I should consider Muep biology home study course?
And does your mark on further, say e.g 35 reflect how you will go in methods and spesh?
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What happens if i find out that the teacher has incorrectly put in my sac marks? For accounting he put A but i got A+'s in my sacs, so is there any point in telling him, are they able to change this???
It's most likely due to moderation that your A+ SACs have now become A's. It's probably not an error unless you're at a top performing school.
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Ga1 - first exam
Ga2- sac result
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i got 99.75. Does anyone with some knowledge on this matter, reckon i have a chance for chancellors program commerce. I know its 99.90 guaranteed cutoff but it also states that more offers for students less than 99.90 will be given subject to demand. There have only been three offered for 99,90, and with the new power shift that allows Uni's to decide intake leels, does anyone think i have a chance, or is it too far down the ranking scheme. Cheers in advance x
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Firstly, congrats on the massive ATAR! Sorry, but its only 99.90 and 99.95 kids who get it :(
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I'll probably get a statement of marks for Spesh exams, I thought I only lost 1-2 marks, not that I'm complaining about the score, it's fuckin' amazing.
Actually I sort of want statement of marks for everything, shame about the cost.
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wow i feel like i wasted my time studying ...got 10 more than i even needed to get a guaranteed place xD
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i got 99.75. Does anyone with some knowledge on this matter, reckon i have a chance for chancellors program commerce. I know its 99.90 guaranteed cutoff but it also states that more offers for students less than 99.90 will be given subject to demand. There have only been three offered for 99,90, and with the new power shift that allows Uni's to decide intake leels, does anyone think i have a chance, or is it too far down the ranking scheme. Cheers in advance x
im in the same position as you.. except i want it for biomed so i get guaranteed entry into grauate dentistry
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i got 99.75. Does anyone with some knowledge on this matter, reckon i have a chance for chancellors program commerce. I know its 99.90 guaranteed cutoff but it also states that more offers for students less than 99.90 will be given subject to demand. There have only been three offered for 99,90, and with the new power shift that allows Uni's to decide intake leels, does anyone think i have a chance, or is it too far down the ranking scheme. Cheers in advance x
im in the same position as you.. except i want it for biomed so i get guaranteed entry into grauate dentistry
Biomed will most definitely be higher considering original entry is 98.45 anyway. I think there may be some leniency in things such as environmental science and commerce, but not in science, art and biomed.
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I got 98.00!! THANK WIZARD GOD! :) :)
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i got 99.75. Does anyone with some knowledge on this matter, reckon i have a chance for chancellors program commerce. I know its 99.90 guaranteed cutoff but it also states that more offers for students less than 99.90 will be given subject to demand. There have only been three offered for 99,90, and with the new power shift that allows Uni's to decide intake leels, does anyone think i have a chance, or is it too far down the ranking scheme. Cheers in advance x
im in the same position as you.. except i want it for biomed so i get guaranteed entry into grauate dentistry
Biomed will most definitely be higher considering original entry is 98.45 anyway. I think there may be some leniency in things such as environmental science and commerce, but not in science, art and biomed.
Damn, was hoping for chancellors science with 99.85 ):
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i got 99.75. Does anyone with some knowledge on this matter, reckon i have a chance for chancellors program commerce. I know its 99.90 guaranteed cutoff but it also states that more offers for students less than 99.90 will be given subject to demand. There have only been three offered for 99,90, and with the new power shift that allows Uni's to decide intake leels, does anyone think i have a chance, or is it too far down the ranking scheme. Cheers in advance x
im in the same position as you.. except i want it for biomed so i get guaranteed entry into grauate dentistry
Biomed will most definitely be higher considering original entry is 98.45 anyway. I think there may be some leniency in things such as environmental science and commerce, but not in science, art and biomed.
Damn, was hoping for chancellors science with 99.85 ):
This is just me speculating. They'll prolly have classes of around 30. There are probably 60 people who got 99.90+ so it's a possibility... Meh, you have a chance it's just that those are the subjects that the high achievers tend to gravitate towards.
Once again, just my speculation.
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Not trying to jump too far forward, but what's required for Aus Student Prize?
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Not trying to jump too far forward, but what's required for Aus Student Prize?
Being in the top 500 students in Australia. It's allocated according to population within each state though, so Victoria gets a pretty big cut of the cake. As far as I've heard, it's allocated according to raw scores, so I've had many friends who scored a higher ENTER than me miss out on it, despite the fact I got it. There's also a nomination process so I have a feeling that you have to have been nominated somehow (school perhaps?) to be eligible. The selection process is all a bit unknown as far as I know.
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Not trying to jump too far forward, but what's required for Aus Student Prize?
Being in the top 500 students in Australia. It's allocated according to population within each state though, so Victoria gets a pretty big cut of the cake. As far as I've heard, it's allocated according to raw scores, so I've had many friends who scored a higher ENTER than me miss out on it, despite the fact I got it. There's also a nomination process so I have a feeling that you have to have been nominated somehow (school perhaps?) to be eligible. The selection process is all a bit unknown as far as I know.
mmm thought it was raws...I've got little to no chance then hahaha
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The aggregates were really high this year, 210.8 for 99.95, that's crazy!
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The aggregates were really high this year, 210.8 for 99.95, that's crazy!
It's actually disgustingly high. I hope scaling is rectified next year. Even if (rofl never going to happen) I 50 all my subjects I get 99.90. LOL.
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The aggregates were really high this year, 210.8 for 99.95, that's crazy!
It's actually disgustingly high. I hope scaling is rectified next year. Even if (rofl never going to happen) I 50 all my subjects I get 99.90. LOL.
Was it you that dropped spesh for further?
A 40 in spesh is better than a 50 in further, lol. Switch back.
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Meh I don't need that high. Just annoyed that VCAA makes it impossible for me to even try get 99.95;
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The aggregates were really high this year, 210.8 for 99.95, that's crazy!
It's actually disgustingly high. I hope scaling is rectified next year. Even if (rofl never going to happen) I 50 all my subjects I get 99.90. LOL.
Was it you that dropped spesh for further?
A 40 in spesh is better than a 50 in further, lol. Switch back.
Pretty sure that's what 99.95 used to sit around isn't it? Used to recall that scaling was always required for a 99.95. It's just that in the past few years, Specialist got flooded with too many people so the scaling went down by quite a lot. My assumption is that this year people stopped doing it for the scaling so it's actually gone back up again, hence the beyond 210 aggregate for 99.95.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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The +5 to languages is bull, a lot of my friends are doing languages cause of the +5 and when they've finished uni guess what, they remember about 20% of what they learnt in VCE, useful? hardly :S
If I knew I would have done a language as well, but it is stupid that scaling is required for 99.95, essentially that means you have to get basically a handful of 50's to get 99.95
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slightly off topic but just to let you guys know
I got offered a med interview at Monash with 99.75 and 86th percentile in the UMAT
just a guide for you guys :)
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slightly off topic but just to let you guys know
I got offered a med interview at Monash with 99.75 and 86th percentile in the UMAT
just a guide for you guys :)
do you know how many were given out?
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slightly off topic but just to let you guys know
I got offered a med interview at Monash with 99.75 and 86th percentile in the UMAT
just a guide for you guys :)
do you know how many were given out?
no idea.. just know that i got one :D
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slightly off topic but just to let you guys know
I got offered a med interview at Monash with 99.75 and 86th percentile in the UMAT
just a guide for you guys :)
congrats :)
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HEYY i saw Istaffa channel 10 news!! They were like "twins from Melbourne High both received perfect s atar of 99.95" and I was like that guys from atar notes haha
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i got 99.75. Does anyone with some knowledge on this matter, reckon i have a chance for chancellors program commerce. I know its 99.90 guaranteed cutoff but it also states that more offers for students less than 99.90 will be given subject to demand. There have only been three offered for 99,90, and with the new power shift that allows Uni's to decide intake leels, does anyone think i have a chance, or is it too far down the ranking scheme. Cheers in advance x
im in the same position as you.. except i want it for biomed so i get guaranteed entry into grauate dentistry
Biomed will most definitely be higher considering original entry is 98.45 anyway. I think there may be some leniency in things such as environmental science and commerce, but not in science, art and biomed.
Damn, was hoping for chancellors science with 99.85 ):
There is a huge demand for science and biomed for people in the 99.90 + range - there won't be any extra places for those below to be considered for these medicince UG degress. But i may have a chance with commerce seeing as there are not a lot students with scores in such a range that want to do commerce straight at melbourne - only 3 with 99.90 + this year.
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slightly off topic but just to let you guys know
I got offered a med interview at Monash with 99.75 and 86th percentile in the UMAT
just a guide for you guys :)
Yea man, I just got an offer too with my <93 Umat score and <98 Atar score.
I can't believe it, im so happy!
When's your interview? Mine is like 2nd or 9th January.
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HEYY i saw Istaffa channel 10 news!! They were like "twins from Melbourne High both received perfect s atar of 99.95" and I was like that guys from atar notes haha
Did u see thushan and samad too? They were there as well!
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Forum username - jeppikah
ATAR - 99.80
English Language - 41
Chemistry - 43
Biology - 46
Physics - 46
Specialist - 50
2010
Methods - 50
:)
Wow well done! Probably the highest ATAR in WSC history. REPRESENT!
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The aggregates were really high this year, 210.8 for 99.95, that's crazy!
It's actually disgustingly high. I hope scaling is rectified next year. Even if (rofl never going to happen) I 50 all my subjects I get 99.90. LOL.
Was it you that dropped spesh for further?
A 40 in spesh is better than a 50 in further, lol. Switch back.
Pretty sure that's what 99.95 used to sit around isn't it? Used to recall that scaling was always required for a 99.95. It's just that in the past few years, Specialist got flooded with too many people so the scaling went down by quite a lot. My assumption is that this year people stopped doing it for the scaling so it's actually gone back up again, hence the beyond 210 aggregate for 99.95.
Not at all actually; VCAA screwed up the scaling a few years ago, forgetting that many Spesh students do Methods in year 11. They fixed it this year.
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
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Oh and on another note, my friend from school did 5 subjects this year, got 5 50s this year. Total 6 50s. O.O!!!!!
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Oh and on another note, my friend from school did 5 subjects this year, got 5 50s this year. Total 6 50s. O.O!!!!!
That. Is. Insane.
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Who the? That is INSANE! Congrats to him whoever he is, totally amazed! :)
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I want to be on TV :(
THIS IS ALL ENGLISH'S FAULT!!
I should have listened to Luffy, two and a half years ago, when we were in year 10, he told me that English Language was a better subject, I argued and did English instead, this is my most regretted decision. Lesson: LISTEN TO LUFFY :D
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WHY DO I BOUTHER GOIN ON THIS FORUMM. makes me feel inferior with all these 99+ haha :/
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THIS IS ALL ENGLISH'S FAULT!!
+ infinity. I wouldn't be worrying about scholarships :( Scaling means my other scores wouldn't make much difference if they were significantly higher/lower/whatever. Why, english, why?
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Oh and on another note, my friend from school did 5 subjects this year, got 5 50s this year. Total 6 50s. O.O!!!!!
michael li? :P
hes a beast piano player too not suprised with his 50 in music perf lol
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Oh and on another note, my friend from school did 5 subjects this year, got 5 50s this year. Total 6 50s. O.O!!!!!
that's an amazing conversion rate, like wow! 100% conversion rate for subjects:fifties
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so, what: that's 300!!!
oh, god.
s.
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@ funckyducky and paulesterio
I may seem like the wrong guy to be saying this, but I totally agree. English is simply a stupid stroke of luck, and the only reason why I got 99.95. Might as well have had just a different examiner who took of like two marks or something and go down to like 43 or something. My brother topped SACs this year at MHS and got 48, and he was and still is way better than me at writing essays. I can really see where you guys are coming from.
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Yeah one of my mates got 49 raw in jap, and that still didn't make it into his top 4
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To everyone who believes that intelligence is not genetic, I think I have found proof in these two guys! :P Well done to both of you though :)
But yeah I know, English is really shifty, but it holds so much weight, in retrospect, English Language would have been the better choice
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Thanks man! :) Congrats to you as well, and I'm sure you can get into Monash MBBS with those scores! :)
PS - AWESOME UMAT score man, should have got tips from you earlier! ;)
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Oh and on another note, my friend from school did 5 subjects this year, got 5 50s this year. Total 6 50s. O.O!!!!!
that's an amazing conversion rate, like wow! 100% conversion rate for subjects:fifties
Heheh 6/7 actually :P
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To everyone who believes that intelligence is not genetic, I think I have found proof in these two guys! :P Well done to both of you though :)
But yeah I know, English is really shifty, but it holds so much weight, in retrospect, English Language would have been the better choice
If they had EngLang at my school.... *sigh* maybe I shouldn't have dropped Literature and done that for my 3/4 instead of English :S
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paulsterio, so your not that happy with ur score?
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Thanks man! :) Congrats to you as well, and I'm sure you can get into Monash MBBS with those scores! :)
PS - AWESOME UMAT score man, should have got tips from you earlier! ;)
No problems, you'll probably get into Monash MBBS as well, you'll get an interview cause of the 99.95 anyway ;D
Thanks though :) the UMAT is probably the only reason I am hoping to get into medicine, it'd probably be really competitive ATAR-wise if it weren't for the UMAT D:
Heheh 6/7 actually :P
He should disown that 7th subject =.="
Perfectionism at its very best ;)
paulsterio, so your not that happy with ur score?
i'm happy with it, but I did a little better than I expected in most subjects and little bit worse than I expected in English, so it balances out, I still think English is unfair :S
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also 2011 aggregate table is out
http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/aggregate-ATAR.pdf
Wow, that was quick! In past years, it seems to have taken a while for the aggregate table and scaling reports to be released. I'll have to update the ATAR Calculator soon :P
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spesh and chink scaling was so good. hopefully such goodness continues.
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spesh: defs. teachers don't want Australia to 'dumb down', to use my Methods teacher's words.
Chink: dodgy. Few years back, I believe 41 scaled to 50+. ???
Last year, not so much.
strange things happen, I suppose.
s.
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also 2011 aggregate table is out
http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/aggregate-ATAR.pdf
Wow, that was quick! In past years, it seems to have taken a while for the aggregate table and scaling reports to be released. I'll have to update the ATAR Calculator soon :P
:P Any chance of incorporating an SS estimator into it?
Also, aggregate for 99.95 is 210.8. If you got 6 50s, your total aggregate is 210.
Specalist Maths fucked the system, haha.
EDIT: btw, congratulations everyone!
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Haha paulsterio I made it on TV! Did you guys catch me? I was in the background on the laptop in the scene where the Education Minister was at the school. :)
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Haha paulsterio I made it on TV! Did you guys catch me? I was in the background on the laptop in the scene where the Education Minister was at the school. :)
As was I...cue awkward staged running group hug. Channel 7, 9 and 10, yo. My parents went into "OMG you're on TV" mode even though I didn't say anything LOL.
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HOWD YOU GUYES GET ON TV?! :O
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WAS that you werdna?? WOW!!
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HOWD YOU GUYES GET ON TV?! :O
Cameera crews came to my school, they asked some of us with high scores to come in...
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Haha paulsterio I made it on TV! Did you guys catch me? I was in the background on the laptop in the scene where the Education Minister was at the school. :)
As was I...cue awkward staged running group hug. Channel 7, 9 and 10, yo. My parents went into "OMG you're on TV" mode even though I didn't say anything LOL.
Wait that was you??? Dam I should have tried to spot someone.
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we got a visit from the vice-chancellor of monash, that's how cool we are, we don't need no tv crews!
*deep resentment*
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I hate English
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So since I'm in year 11, I got my raw score through the internet. But when I get the letter, will that have the scaled?
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So since I'm in year 11, I got my raw score through the internet. But when I get the letter, will that have the scaled?
You won't 'officially' now your scaled score until you get your ATAR
You can estimate it by looking at the scaling report or by waiting for the ATARcalc to be updated and just plugging in your raw score there to see the scaling
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Do we get the GAT results when the scores get sent out, or do we have to apply?
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I think you should get the GAT results sent to you along with the hard-copy of your VCE results for this year.
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WAS that you werdna?? WOW!!
If it was the Asian guy with glasses then yes.. hahha :) I was in the background so you might not have seen me. And paulsterio, the Education Minister dropped by our school at around 8am this morning to see how we were going. :)
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tassie
ATAR - 95.70
Subject 1 - English 38
Subject 2 - Physics 36 (lol gave up at mid years :))
Subject 3 - Methods 37
Subject 4 - Chem 38
Subject 5 - IT Applications 47(yay!)
Subject 6 - Legal Studies 39
haha i'm really happy with my results, actually went on atar calc last nite and convinced myself i would get 89 if i was lucky lol
same! severely underestimated myself.
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:)
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English- A, A+, A.
Health- A, A+, A+
History- B+, B+, B+
Literature- B, A, A
Legal Studies- A+, A+, A+
Really pissed about health, I aced the exam and did well on all sacs, yet a 39? Btw I was in with a extremely weak cohort which would have brought down some of my scores...meh
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WHY DO I BOUTHER GOIN ON THIS FORUMM. makes me feel inferior with all these 99+ haha :/
Tell me about it right, my ATAR of 89 seems insignificant haha...
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Anyone know when 40+ scores are in the newspapers? :P
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tuesday Herald sun im pretty sure
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tuesday Herald sun im pretty sure
Yeah it's Tuesday.
From Wednesday's paper: http://i.imgur.com/3wz1H.png
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SIF schools report is on wednesday, cbf buying 2 papers :S
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WHY DO I BOUTHER GOIN ON THIS FORUMM. makes me feel inferior with all these 99+ haha :/
Tell me about it right, my ATAR of 89 seems insignificant haha...
I got a 98.25 and mine still seems pretty shitty in comparison lol. Only just above the median.
EDIT:
Just on the median lol.
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WHY DO I BOUTHER GOIN ON THIS FORUMM. makes me feel inferior with all these 99+ haha :/
Tell me about it right, my ATAR of 89 seems insignificant haha...
I got a 98.25 and mine still seems pretty shitty in comparison lol. Only just above the median.
EDIT:
Just on the median lol.
Right on the median now panicmode.
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Ahah i was so happy about my 95, then i logged in here and im like :/
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tuesday Herald sun im pretty sure
Yeah it's Tuesday.
From Wednesday's paper: http://i.imgur.com/3wz1H.png
Are they doing one in The Age as well?
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How did you guys fare compared to your predictions you wrote on my thread a while back?
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Prediction I wrote was 99.20, but I kind of thought I'd get a bit higher than that... so I was pretty accurate overall, though chem was a bit lower than I thought.
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How did you guys fare compared to your predictions you wrote on my thread a while back?
Predicted Chem and Methods exactly. English was 1 off and Physics and Spesh were 2 off.
ATAR would've been correct if spesh didnt scale as high but guess it did :)
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How did you guys fare compared to your predictions you wrote on my thread a while back?
I predicted that you were bs-ing eng lang!
My predictions were alright for spesh and chem, off for the rest. Happy with that result :)
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tuesday Herald sun im pretty sure
Yeah it's Tuesday.
From Wednesday's paper: http://i.imgur.com/3wz1H.png
what app is that?! :O looks awesome!!
How did you guys fare compared to your predictions you wrote on my thread a while back?
I predicted you would get 99.95 and you got 99.95, what more could I say? :P LOL!!
In terms of my own scores, I was quite off pre-exams
English - 48, MM - 50, SM - 50, Chem - 40, Physics - 40
But my predictions after exams were pretty accurate
English was spot on, Methods was a little higher, Spesh a little lower, Physics and Chem were both pretty much where I predicted them to be
ATAR is higher than predicted due to spesh scaling
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I just updated atarcalc.com to use data from the 2011 scaling report :)
WHY DO I BOUTHER GOIN ON THIS FORUMM. makes me feel inferior with all these 99+ haha :/
Tell me about it right, my ATAR of 89 seems insignificant haha...
Haha, I know right? :P
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I just updated atarcalc.com to use data from the 2011 scaling report :)
WHY DO I BOUTHER GOIN ON THIS FORUMM. makes me feel inferior with all these 99+ haha :/
Tell me about it right, my ATAR of 89 seems insignificant haha...
Haha, I know right? :P
Sweet, but i think you got the scaling of spesh wrong :S
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Whoa so many amazing scores congrats everyone :)
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Hey guys congrats on everyones scores
I just thought i would add mine to the list
ATAR ~ 97.15
English ~ 42
Biology ~ 42
Chemistry ~ 39
Further ~ 46
Methods ~ 36
PE ~ 42
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Sweet, but i think you got the scaling of spesh wrong :S
How so? Are the number different than on the VCAA scaling report?
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If it helps, my spesh went from 44 ---> 52.86 or 52.83, something like that
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English- 33---<31
Aus Hist-39---<38
Psych-36---<34
Revs- 34
Politics- 29--->33
Further- 23---<dunno
ATAR 81.6
SUCK IT 99'ERS
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LOTE: Swedish =
GA1: B+
GA2: B+
GA3:A+
Study Score: 32.
How does that work?! :(
I thought it would have been higher.
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LOTE: Swedish =
GA1: B+
GA2: B+
GA3:A+
Study Score: 32.
How does that work?! :(
I thought it would have been higher.
Lol yeah i got: B+,A,B = 30 for jap
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Ok, i still cant get over my english result.. Pretty devo tbh, i mean i worked my ass off the week before the exam and i thought i did pretty well on the exam. I mean while i was writing my TR i was thinking that it was one of my best pieces, my creative piece related to the prompt and i had a few ppl read it and my teachers and they thought it would do fairly well. I thought that LA would let me down and it may have but it wasnt that bad, like it was decent.
I got A, A+, B+ which got me a 36. I mean 36 is still a great score, but for the amount of effort i put in and how i was feeling after the exam i thought that i was a genuine chance for a 40. Now, i jsut checked the mail and i got a 43 for the written section in the GAT. Ive been told by multiple teachers that the GAT can boost up your exam scores if you do well in it and average on the subject exam and i just cant see what happened... I actually tried in the GAT just in case something like this happened in the english exam. Maybe i just expected too much but yeh im not too happy.
FUCK YOU VCAA.
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Ok, i still cant get over my english result.. Pretty devo tbh, i mean i worked my ass off the week before the exam
Im sorry dude but working your ass for one week doesn't really count for much in english. it is a subject that requires foundations to be set from the middle to start of the year. working ONLY the week before kind of shows you didn't take it seriously, so the result seems justified. However if you are still concerned, then ask for an inspection of script and sit down with your teacher to see where you went wrong. It will allow you to let go of any feelings of being disadvantageed. also im not sure the GAT can be taken seriously.
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Ok, i still cant get over my english result.. Pretty devo tbh, i mean i worked my ass off the week before the exam
Im sorry dude but working your ass for one week doesn't really count for much in english. it is a subject that requires foundations to be set from the middle to start of the year. working ONLY the week before kind of shows you didn't take it seriously, so the result seems justified. However if you are still concerned, then ask for an inspection of script and sit down with your teacher to see where you went wrong. It will allow you to let go of any feelings of being disadvantageed. also im not sure the GAT can be taken seriously.
Well i worked hard throughout the year for sure, it wasnt like i bludged scas then decided to get serious for exams. I just stepped it up a level for the exam, i was probably doing english non stop throughout that week, so much so that i neglected all my other subjects. As a result, at the end of the exam period i felt as though english was giong to be my best subject... I felt as though perhaps i shouldnt have put in as much effort for english as i couldve maybe done a bit better in my other subjects.
Maybe what i wrote was just pure bs taht the examiners hated, yeh maybe that was it...
Also with the whole GAT thing i feel kind of mislead by the entire thing because many of my teachers and even some examiners at lectures said that it 'can' influence your final exam score but only in a positive way.
/End rant.
I suppose i just fail at english.
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Yes, the GAT can only work in your favour not to your detriment (when there is a big discrepancy between SACs and exam performance). But considering you got a B+ on the exam and a moderated A and A+ overall for SACs, the GAT would've made little to no difference anyway.
Also, the exam score is NOT moderated - whatever you get on the exam is yours. You got a B+ on the exam, so I hate to say it, but you probably underperformed in the exam and this is largely due to the fact that it's so hard to gauge how well you go in an English exam. And like Jdog said, no matter how much cramming you do for this subject in the lead-up to the exam, the foundations have to be there... Nevertheless, you should be happy with your overall scores! :P
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LOL and i just opened my gat, i got <20 for english, ( I didn't try, but still haha)
and i did quite well in actual english haha.
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I guess i just underperformed in the exam and the risk i decided to take didnt pay off... But yeh it's hard to take it when you worked fairly hard for something then you dont get what you want. Oh well at least the atar makes up for the english score lol
I will forever hate vce english - with a passion.
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I have a dilemma with Chemistry, on whether or not I should contend my score of 36. In a fairly weak cohort our teacher gave us very easy SAC's, and the average scores were 80%+ for pretty much everyone. The problem for me here was that it screwed up the rankings in the SAC's, as I was about 5th or 6th with a 90+ SAC average, even when my exam scores were equal best in the class (A+, A). The other person on those exam scores had a more fortunate SAC ranking, and managed a 40 raw.
3 kids in the top 5 had little knowledge of chemistry at all, and could only manage C+ exam scores at best. The SAC ranking was unfairly good for them, due to the teacher's lenience in SAC marking and constant aiding of students during SAC's.
Would there be any chance of contending my mark to VCAA for the SAC's? As it doesn't make sense for a student ranked 2nd or 3rd to get an A-A+ mark, without even scoring higher than a C+ in either exam.
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The fact that you're asking us that question makes me say yes, go contend it. Do not let it stick in the back of your head.
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What was the highest atar score for a VN user who didnt do Spesh? Out of curiosity..
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What was the highest atar score for a VN user who didnt do Spesh? Out of curiosity..
99.95, its possible if you do latin or something.
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What was the highest atar score for a VN user who didnt do Spesh? Out of curiosity..
99.95 if you look at the AN 2011 list acheived by Greggaz
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What was the highest atar score for a VN user who didnt do Spesh? Out of curiosity..
You can get a 99.95 by doing languages, which scale up more than spesh does anyway, the benefits of doing spesh are decreasing every day, plus so many people do it that fluctuations/increases in its scaling affect the aggregate->atar so much
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What was the highest atar score for a VN user who didnt do Spesh? Out of curiosity..
You can get a 99.95 by doing languages, which scale up more than spesh does anyway, the benefits of doing spesh are decreasing every day, plus so many people do it that fluctuations/increases in its scaling affect the aggregate->atar so much
I'm sorry, but a 40 in French (one of the highest scaling languages) didn't scale up to a 50+
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^What he said. My 48 Indo only got scaled up to 49.2...
I want some justice now.
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Agreed...
My 41 in french scaled up to 49.83... almost 50...
Indonesian scaling was not that great probs because of the easier exam...
My 42 in indo went up to 46.57...
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What was the highest atar score for a VN user who didnt do Spesh? Out of curiosity..
You can get a 99.95 by doing languages, which scale up more than spesh does anyway, the benefits of doing spesh are decreasing every day, plus so many people do it that fluctuations/increases in its scaling affect the aggregate->atar so much
im sorry getting a 46-47 in french os so much FUCKING harder than getting a 42 in spesh which scales to 52. Get your facts right before commenting,
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Agreed with above. Call me bitter but i think the spesh scaling was a little unfair. Plus it doesn't seem the benefits of spesh are deteriorating at all
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Hey guys, chill the frack down.
Scaling reflects the level of competition for a particular study.
I'm of the opinion that scaling doesn't reward difficulty or hard work directly. Some humanities subjects, I'd argue, as just as hard as spesh in terms of mastering the content, but not as highly scaled.
But VTAC/VCAA tries their best. Scaling does even out the playing field when it comes to VCE as a competition. If you're competing against smart people in a study with relatively easy content, the scaling would go up more. If you're competing against less intelligent students in a study with difficult content, it'd probably even scale down. It's not a perfect system but it's the best we have and I'd like to see anyone come up with a completely fair and quantitative system (because no one wants to assess 40-50,000 students one by one).
Paulsterio was right in saying that a 99.95 is possible without doing spesh. It's debatable whether the benefits of spesh are decreasing, given that this year it scaled up 11 or something in that bracket, but it still is possible.
And maybe getting a high study score in language is much harder and requires more work, but all that is qualitative and, generally for most people on AN, one would pick a subject knowing it's pros and cons already. So I say just suck it up. I chose my subjects knowing exactly how much they would scale and yeah, it annoyed me slightly knowing I'd have to probably work just as hard in something like philosophy or literature and not get the rewards in scaling, but then you move on and accept that it's the best system we can have at the moment.
/end rant.
(sorry, scaling discussions annoy me. it shouldn't be that important)
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Hey guys, chill the frack down.
+1
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I'm not bitter or jaded about the way spesh scaled, I'm happy with my mark :D. What I'm not happy with is people claiming that languages are easy and scale up heaps like spesh when in reality, it's the opposite.
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Sweet, but i think you got the scaling of spesh wrong :S
How so? Are the number different than on the VCAA scaling report?
Not quite sure but a 47 raw went to 54.18, the calc says 53.8
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What's the minimum aggregate required for a 99.95? Would 208-210 have done it this year?
Hopefully not too many people from next year's cohort get above 210 :p
No you needed 210.8 at least
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^WTF, so that's only possible by scaling, right?
That means in general this year's yr 12's were
the brightest its ever been...
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the brightest its ever been...
I'd like to think so, but I think its just that we had some nice and needed spesh scaling
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yeah so if the scaling report said your 30 went to 31, what really happened is your 30 went to 26, and then 5 was added onto that because the Government wants to encourage people to pick up a language :)
EDIT:
Maybe the 30 went to 35 but then got scaled back down to 31
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^The government is biased towards scaling up
'useful' foreign languages to enhance foreign
relationships. Thus, only relevant languages
(such as mandarin, japanese, indonesian, french
etc etc) get boosted higher.
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. that's not what happens. it's +5 extra on all languages.
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What I think will be interesting in the coming years is that of recent times (including this year's cohort) we were under the impression Spesh scales up by 8, now that it scales up by 11, a lot more of your ~99.70ish people are going to take it as well and in general people are more aware of the benefits of scaling subjects as well as a 3/4 in year 11.
I think we could see the Aggregate for 99.95 rise above 213ish one day.
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to bazza, an extra 5+ in all languages?
Spanish 30 this year goes to 33
Punjabi 30 this year---> 31.
Viet 30 into into 34....
It can be somewhat questionable (and kinda unfair)
when some languages are scaled more than others.
For example, I do reckon viet is harder than indo,
yet indo SL scales more than viet (with a general +7)
this year.
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Punjabi fluctuates so much, 3 years ago 30--->42, the year before it was 5, last year it was 6 and this year it was 1
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. that's not what happens. it's +5 extra on all languages.
I think you've got your information slightly screwed up. Also, I was not complaining about spesh scaling, just about the fact that people were claiming that langauges were easier than spesh (which they aren't) and that they get scaled more (which they don't).
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All languages get a +5 onto their scaled mean (which is set), then the scaled scores determined based on that new scaled mean, I think.
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All languages get a +5 onto their scaled mean (which is set), then the scaled scores determined based on that new scaled mean, I think.
Ahh I get it, so rather than a mean of 30 and sd of 7, there's a mean of 35 and sd of 7? Still, that doesn't mean that languages will scale up anywhere near the rate that spesh did this year. 40-->51 is incredibly high and I have friends who will vouch for the fact that a 40 in any language (unless it's your native language and you get to take it as a second language) is much harder than a 40 in spesh.
I'm not complaining about spesh scaling, just pointing out that it's not fair to bash languages given their difficulty.
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^The government is biased towards scaling up
'useful' foreign languages to enhance foreign
relationships. Thus, only relevant languages
(such as mandarin, japanese, indonesian, french
etc etc) get boosted higher.
Yeah this is why Latin gets the +5 too. The government is really keen on boosting relations with the Vatican and/or Rome two millennia ago...
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Yes, the GAT can only work in your favour not to your detriment (when there is a big discrepancy between SACs and exam performance). But considering you got a B+ on the exam and a moderated A and A+ overall for SACs, the GAT would've made little to no difference anyway.
+1
Yea i reckon - I got 24 or something for written GAT and got 45
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LOLOLOL LANGUAGES PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT SCALING. YOU GET AN EXTRA +5 AT 30 FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
When you experience the difficulty of doing a language, then you can comment.
Getting a 47+ in French which scales to 50+ is so much fucking harder than a 40 + in spesh.
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^Support. Languages are hard to learn.
Try getting a 45+ in languages, almost
impossible to do if you start from scratch
(without no previous exposure to the language).
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^^ I have a feeling it may be virtually impossible for those having it as a second language. Our highest French score in our school, considering that he was a native, was a 42!
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LOLOLOL LANGUAGES PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT SCALING. YOU GET AN EXTRA +5 AT 30 FOR NO REASON AT ALL.
When you experience the difficulty of doing a language, then you can comment.
Getting a 47+ in French which scales to 50+ is so much fucking harder than a 40 + in spesh.
No, you're different though, I understand the bonus for you guys but I know people who get ridiculous scores in their native languages and that's not fair because they're natives
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but I know people who get ridiculous scores in their native languages and that's not fair because they're natives
+1, esp in Chinese SL
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If you can't play the system, then shut up and brute force it instead.
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To be honest,
I can't believe you people give this much of a shit about VCE. It's over, quit whinging.
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. that's not what happens. it's +5 extra on all languages.
I think you've got your information slightly screwed up. Also, I was not complaining about spesh scaling, just about the fact that people were claiming that langauges were easier than spesh (which they aren't) and that they get scaled more (which they don't).
I don't think i do. It's not about the "toughness." If a subject is "tough" everyone finds it "tough" and it shouldn't affect raw scores. I'm talking about scaling. Latin -> 47 but the mean in other subjects is only 42 (from 30). It's +5.
I think you've got your information slightly screwed up.
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If you can't play the system, then shut up and brute force it instead.
I take your point, but you shouldn't have to do either. The system is broken since it fucks over a large amount of humanities students and VCAA need to fix it (but never will because $$$)
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To be honest,
I can't believe you people give this much of a shit about VCE. It's over, quit whinging.
why are you on this forum then? if you've finished vce -> everyone has finished vce?
If you can't play the system, then shut up and brute force it instead.
I take your point, but you shouldn't have to do either. The system is broken since it fucks over a large amount of humanities students and VCAA need to fix it (but never will because $$$)
Really it's unfair to non - humanities (if humanities include languages) students. Languages students get this random massive +5 (espec for higher scaling subjects). Otherwise the system is logically fair and makes sense, it's "logical" to set the median study score for a subject equal to the students median study score in their other subjects.
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I think I've said this before, but scaling does not reflect the difficulty of the content of the course. It only reflects the level of competition the state-wide cohort of a particular study presents.
What this means is that spesh doesn't get scaled up because the maths is hard. It gets scaled up because the people who do spesh excel at their other subjects as a whole, and thus the level of competition within the state-wide spesh cohort is much higher. If a whole bunch of "dumb" people did spesh, regardless of how difficult the content is, spesh would scale down.
So the system is fair in the sense that it reflects who you're competing against. But it is pretty unfair if you consider that a humanities student and a maths student probably works just as hard to master the content of the study and get a 45+ score in their respective subjects but only the spesh student gets a big scale-up.
Regarding languages, yes, the government offers a +5 at the mean both to encourage language studies and to reflect the difficulty of the content, but that's offered to all students. I agree that it's completely unfair that some native speakers get to do second language. VCAA try to address this with Chinese SL and Chinese SLA, as well as Indonesian SL, but it's still not quite a fair system. The fact remains that besides Latin, languages don't scale nearly as much as spesh, especially in the 40+ range.
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If you can't play the system, then shut up and brute force it instead.
But you can't beat those who play the system and use brute force whilst doing so
Regarding languages, yes, the government offers a +5 at the mean both to encourage language studies and to reflect the difficulty of the content, but that's offered to all students. I agree that it's completely unfair that some native speakers get to do second language. VCAA try to address this with Chinese SL and Chinese SLA, as well as Indonesian SL, but it's still not quite a fair system. The fact remains that besides Latin, languages don't scale nearly as much as spesh, especially in the 40+ range.
Yes, that's right, the whole SL, SLA, FL divisions aren't fair, I know Chinese kids who have basically grown up in Australia speaking Chinese everyday, reading and writing well, technically they should be counted as SLA, based on ability, but since they were born here, they get SL and they end up getting like around 45 in Chinese SL, that really means that unless you're a native speaker, you won't get anywhere near 40, that's not exactly fair.
Secondly, true, most languages do not scale as much as spesh, but if you look at Chinese SL, Latin, Classical Greek, Hebrew, French, they all scale up massively. They are advantageous not because they scale up, but because they scale beyond 50. We all know that this year, it's impossible to get 99.95 unless you did a language and/or spesh (the aggregate required is greater than 210). Alright, so let's say there's a hypothetical scenario where I do two languages and spesh and get a score of 53 scaled in all of them (some go up to 55!) that's already 159, a decent score of 45 in English and that's 204, easily 99.95 with two 10% subjects.
See how you can get away with a 45 in English and still get 99.95, that's why languages are unfair, without them, you essentially have to get a 48+ in English to get 99.95, which is grossly unfair
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Yes, it is indeed grossly unfair that you can "get away" with needing to be in the top 0.5% of students rather than the top 1.5% of students.
Really it's unfair to non - humanities (if humanities include languages) students. Languages students get this random massive +5 (espec for higher scaling subjects). Otherwise the system is logically fair and makes sense, it's "logical" to set the median study score for a subject equal to the students median study score in their other subjects.
The arbitrary +5 to languages is not desirable but it's the least broken part of the system right now. Marking to a bell curve and scaling is always going to discriminate against humanities subjects, because of the inherent differences (and class sizes for some subjects).
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Marking to a bell curve and scaling is always going to discriminate against humanities subjects, because of the inherent differences (and class sizes for some subjects).
wouldn't you say that it is easier to score well in these subjects? i did software development last year and got a 48 (raw - scaled to 47.98) after dropping like 5 marks on the exam, I can assure you that dropping 5 will not land 48 in methods/spesh
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Those languages probably scale up beyond 50 because they deserve to be scaled up, given the level of difficulty of the content and probably because of the level of competition as well. In the 45+ range of study scores, the default +5 at the mean weighs less than the actual difficulty of the subject, I think. Look at Indonesian, which, because it's relatively easy as a language, didn't scale beyond 50 at all. Those languages scale up because they are difficult, and that's fair enough.
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Marking to a bell curve and scaling is always going to discriminate against humanities subjects, because of the inherent differences (and class sizes for some subjects).
wouldn't you say that it is easier to score well in these subjects? i did software development last year and got a 48 (raw - scaled to 47.98) after dropping like 5 marks on the exam, I can assure you that dropping 5 will not land 48 in methods/spesh
I don't know the statistics behind how many marks you get to lose in the exam. But I'd agree that the current system really doesn't help humanities students. I wouldn't say it's easier to score well in these subjects, I'd say it requires just as much or even more work to get the same study scores in both maths/science and humanities, but maths and science subjects would scale up more whereas humanities ones tend to scale down.
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Those languages probably scale up beyond 50 because they deserve to be scaled up, given the level of difficulty of the content and probably because of the level of competition as well. In the 45+ range of study scores, the default +5 at the mean weighs less than the actual difficulty of the subject, I think. Look at Indonesian, which, because it's relatively easy as a language, didn't scale beyond 50 at all. Those languages scale up because they are difficult, and that's fair enough.
I think in a fair system, no subjects should scale beyond 50, because that disadvantages students who do subjects which stop at 50, it's like going into a F1 race and saying cars 1, 2 and 3 can go up to 120mph whilst others can only go to 100mph. No matter how hard I work, I cannot beat someone who gets a scaled score of 55 in say French
I don't know the statistics behind how many marks you get to lose in the exam. But I'd agree that the current system really doesn't help humanities students. I wouldn't say it's easier to score well in these subjects, I'd say it requires just as much or even more work to get the same study scores in both maths/science and humanities, but maths and science subjects would scale up more whereas humanities ones tend to scale down.
I won't argue, but the mean study score is usually less than 30 for humanities subjects, which means that there are a lot of "bad" people doing it and hence it is a little easier to score more highly in. For example if I'm good at Business Management, I might score say a 47, whereas someone of a similar calibre in Methods might only score a 43, so scaling sort of neutralises that effect by bringing methods up and BM down a little, don't you think?
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I might be a bit biased here but I don't think that language scaling is as unfair as most of you make it out to be. Just taking Chinese SL as an example, my class had some pretty strong Chinese students (some who were indeed strong background speakers and speak Mandarin at home) and we only had 3 people who scored 40+. Now out of these 3, two of them were actually non-Mandarin background speakers- they did not speak Mandarin at home but were still of Asian/Chinese decent. I think this just goes to show that the competition is Chinese SL is quite crazy and that you don't necessarily have to be a background speaker to do well in Chinese- just like most other subjects, hard work in Chinese pays off as well.
P.S: Just another thought, many VCE language learners have been learning their chosen language since year 7 or even earlier. The scaling could be thought of as a reward for their long-term commitment :)
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I don't care about +5 to languages - you'd be foolish to not acknowledge the difficulty of learning a language. It isn't a subject where it can be studied out of a book especially come oral exam; it requires a holistic understanding and continual, everlasting study. The only scaling that annoys me is Specialist Maths because as paulsterio has said, people with subjects that stop at 50 can never get a 99.95. Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
Hopefully next year spesh lowers and the 99.95 aggregate lowers as uni (5.5) is taken out.
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I got a dux medal yay ^_^ Sorry had to express my excitement somewhere.
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I don't care about +5 to languages - you'd be foolish to not acknowledge the difficulty of learning a language. It isn't a subject where it can be studied out of a book especially come oral exam; it requires a holistic understanding and continual, everlasting study. The only scaling that annoys me is Specialist Maths because as paulsterio has said, people with subjects that stop at 50 can never get a 99.95. Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
Hopefully next year spesh lowers and the 99.95 aggregate lowers as uni (5.5) is taken out.
You'd be foolish not to acknowledge the difficulty of learning Spesh. I hope it still scales past 50 as it encourages Maths students who might be hesitant to take a challenging subject. If it didn't who would take a difficult subject like Spesh?
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Another idea - how about cap the 99.95 cutoff to 209?
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I don't care about +5 to languages - you'd be foolish to not acknowledge the difficulty of learning a language. It isn't a subject where it can be studied out of a book especially come oral exam; it requires a holistic understanding and continual, everlasting study. The only scaling that annoys me is Specialist Maths because as paulsterio has said, people with subjects that stop at 50 can never get a 99.95. Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
Hopefully next year spesh lowers and the 99.95 aggregate lowers as uni (5.5) is taken out.
You'd be foolish not to acknowledge the difficulty of learning Spesh. I hope it still scales past 50 as it encourages Maths students who might be hesitant to take a challenging subject. If it didn't who would take a difficult subject like Spesh?
Erm I don't know where I said Spesh wasn't difficult? :S
Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.
re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!
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re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!
i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.
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re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!
i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.
...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).
Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
You are making the big assumption that people who get 99.95 don't like languages and/or spesh. You don't do a subject like latin or spesh because you hate it and just want 99.95. You are so ignorant.
Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.
'Satisfied' is an odd word to use, it's not like they had a choice... And ACTUALLY, people were not happy with methods and spesh scaling being so close (both spesh students and spesh teachers), so in fact, they were not "satisfied" and the trend was not a good one for encouraging the highest level of VCE mathematics.
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...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).
Getting a 50 in any subject, irrespective of their perceived difficulty is always hard. And were everyone to start to take the 'easy' subjects to get an easier perfect score, the competition would increase drastically in those subjects and you would be back to a situation where it is equally difficult for anyone to achieve a 99.95.
I can't ever see the fairness in effectively barring specific groups of people from ever getting a particular grade, irrespective of the possible consequences. The system worked fine until now, everyone had the chance to reach that top spot. The spesh scaling has fucked that up and now a group of people are competing for 99.95 while the rest are only allowed to compete for 99.90.
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re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!
i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.
...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).
Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
You are making the big assumption that people who get 99.95 don't like languages and/or spesh. You don't do a subject like latin or spesh because you hate it and just want 99.95. You are so ignorant.
Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.
'Satisfied' is an odd word to use, it's not like they had a choice... And ACTUALLY, people were not happy with methods and spesh scaling being so close (both spesh students and spesh teachers), so in fact, they were not "satisfied" and the trend was not a good one for encouraging the highest level of VCE mathematics.
lol psychology is a legit hard subject, id say probably a tiny bit less harder than bio
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^^ I was just choosing subjects that scaled down
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...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).
Getting a 50 in any subject, irrespective of their perceived difficulty is always hard. And were everyone to start to take the 'easy' subjects to get an easier perfect score, the competition would increase drastically in those subjects and you would be back to a situation where it is equally difficult for anyone to achieve a 99.95.
I can't ever see the fairness in effectively barring specific groups of people from ever getting a particular grade, irrespective of the possible consequences. The system worked fine until now, everyone had the chance to reach that top spot. The spesh scaling has fucked that up and now a group of people are competing for 99.95 while the rest are only allowed to compete for 99.90.
Okay, even if getting a 50 in say further is easier than getting a 50 in spesh.. it's like saying, it's not fair that someone who got an aggregate of 219 gets the same score as someone who got 211. what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.
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what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.
I think that is what you'd have to say. I heard this from a previous 99.95-er, he said his success in VCE was all about the "three Ps":
1) Persistence
2) Practice
3) Playing the system to your benefit
I'd have to agree with him.
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what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.
I think that is what you'd have to say. I heard this from a previous 99.95-er, he said his success in VCE was all about the "three Ps":
1) Persistence
2) Practice
3) Playing the system to your benefit
I'd have to agree with him.
I'd agree too. That doesn't mean the system is fair, it's just the truth. A person should be able to achieve any atar (including the very high end ones) with the first two (and I'd have to add to that list, natural ability), and not have to 'play the system'. What if it doesn't benefit them? Not everyone is great at maths and/or languages, or can do a uni extension subject.
In fact, the system shouldn't be benefiting (bad english, sorry) anyone.
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what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.
I think that is what you'd have to say. I heard this from a previous 99.95-er, he said his success in VCE was all about the "three Ps":
1) Persistence
2) Practice
3) Playing the system to your benefit
I'd have to agree with him.
If you define success as getting a 99.95 ATAR, then yeah, that might be true.
Personally, I think success in VCE is all about
1. Learning lots
2. Loving what you learnt
3. Getting into the course you want
For some people, to satisfy #1 and #2, they can't do spesh or languages. Either because that's not where their interests lie, or because they're not naturally gifted at either maths or languages. They may be a genius in humanities or visual arts or theatre, but they still won't be able to access the 99.95, which is a little unfair.
Like I said before, the competition for spesh may generally be tighter, but I think it's just as hard to get a 50 in drama or renaissance (maybe harder) as spesh. Both in terms of the content of the course and the competition at that level. So it's not quite fair that spesh is the only one out of the three that scales past 50.
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That doesn't mean the system is fair, it's just the truth.
Its not perfectly fair, but its the best of a bad system (as Russ pointed out earlier). We cannot hope to fix the 99.95 issue unless we revamp the system, and that will never happen in the foreseeable future :(
@Menang, I understand what you say, but I did say 'his success', not general success.
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eh, isn't languages which has the most unfair scaling of all a "humanities" subject?
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eh, isn't languages which has the most unfair scaling of all a "humanities" subject?
I wouldn't consider it under humanities, no. Obviously, lots of humanities students do languages, but so do lots of maths/science students. I'd say languages deserve their own category here.
And also, I wouldn't say languages has the most unfair scaling of all subjects.
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so how many "humanities" students are there then? how many people don't take a science, math or language...
I'm probably considered a Humanities student, except I love French and Maths, but didn't take French because I just wanted to do History soooo badly and I had to boot a subject. But I know that I will regret it because I was really good at french and because of its mega scaling..
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we don't necessarily have to classify students as 'maths' or 'humanities'. also, if 'this particular argument' you are referring to is the whole 99.95 issue not being achievable by some students.. then science doesn't scale above 50. neither do 2 of the 3 maths. Point is, there are many more people who don't do a scaling above 50 subject than those who do.
Anyway, I have to agree, VCAA have done a pretty good job of trying to make it fair, and I dont think its even possible for there to be a perfect system.
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VCAA have tried their best, and there's no such thing as a perfect system. The fact remains that spesh and language scaling is really unfair.
Bazza16: I know of quite a few girls from my cohort in MacRob who don't do any of maths, science or languages. If you're talking about not doing languages or spesh (which are the subjects that scale beyond 50), that's the majority of my friends.
So while VCAA have tried their best to even out the playing field, the fact remains that a large number of my friends, even if they were to work really hard and get 50's in everything, wouldn't be able to access the 99.95 ATAR.
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Okay, even if getting a 50 in say further is easier than getting a 50 in spesh.. it's like saying, it's not fair that someone who got an aggregate of 219 gets the same score as someone who got 211. what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.
Hence my suggestion that no subjects should scale beyond 50
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Oh my lord, what is this obsession with getting a perfect score? Yes, a 99.95 would be amazing. You would feel brilliant about yourself - for a few months. Then uni would start, no one would ask about your ATAR, and it wouldn't be such a big deal anymore. What matters is getting into your course and knowing that you did the best you possibly could, and feeling that you actually learned something. Yes, the system is unfair for those who don't do a crazily scaled subject, but there are far worse problems with the education system than that. This is coming from someone who did a subject that rarely gets a single 50, as well as no maths/sciences/languages. The fact is, the root of the problem lies not in VCAA/scaling, but in what society places value upon. Because let's not forget, the GAT plays a major role in determining scaling. If society placed more value upon the arts, then people would take it more seriously, rather than just taking it as a bludge subject and bringing down the overall results, etc. etc.
TL;DNR: CHILL OUT GUYS, HIGH SCHOOL IS OVER. Enjoy your fantastic marks and unless you end up as some high up powerful person in the Education Department, the problems with the system are no longer something you have to think about.
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Oh my lord, what is this obsession with getting a perfect score? Yes, a 99.95 would be amazing. You would feel brilliant about yourself - for a few months. Then uni would start, no one would ask about your ATAR, and it wouldn't be such a big deal anymore. What matters is getting into your course and knowing that you did the best you possibly could, and feeling that you actually learned something. Yes, the system is unfair for those who don't do a crazily scaled subject, but there are far worse problems with the education system than that. This is coming from someone who did a subject that rarely gets a single 50, as well as no maths/sciences/languages. The fact is, the root of the problem lies not in VCAA/scaling, but in what society places value upon. Because let's not forget, the GAT plays a major role in determining scaling. If society placed more value upon the arts, then people would take it more seriously, rather than just taking it as a bludge subject and bringing down the overall results, etc. etc.
TL;DNR: CHILL OUT GUYS, HIGH SCHOOL IS OVER. Enjoy your fantastic marks and unless you end up as some high up powerful person in the Education Department, the problems with the system are no longer something you have to think about.
which stooge told you the GAT plays a major part in scaling?
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Oh my lord, what is this obsession with getting a perfect score? Yes, a 99.95 would be amazing. You would feel brilliant about yourself - for a few months. Then uni would start, no one would ask about your ATAR, and it wouldn't be such a big deal anymore. What matters is getting into your course and knowing that you did the best you possibly could, and feeling that you actually learned something.
So true. Wish I could like your post. But for some reason we can't anymore <.<
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So true. Wish I could like your post. But for some reason we can't anymore <.<
Off topic.
We can't like people's posts in this part of the forum as they didn't want people to gain respect for just posting their ATAR scores.
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re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!
i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.
...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).
Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
You are making the big assumption that people who get 99.95 don't like languages and/or spesh. You don't do a subject like latin or spesh because you hate it and just want 99.95. You are so ignorant.
Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.
'Satisfied' is an odd word to use, it's not like they had a choice... And ACTUALLY, people were not happy with methods and spesh scaling being so close (both spesh students and spesh teachers), so in fact, they were not "satisfied" and the trend was not a good one for encouraging the highest level of VCE mathematics.
LOLs, I'm ignorant and you believe "easy" and "hard" 50's exist. 'nuff said there.
I didn't assume anything. How do you know people take latin/spesh because they like it? How do you know they didn't take it because it's merely part of the "azn 5" or they want the scaling? Nice assumption there...
And hmm, don't ever recall saying I hate either of these subjects. Their subject matter is uninteresting to me. They deserve the scaling they got prior to 2011 - everyone, every VCE student, should have a chance of getting 99.95 and now non spesh/lang people can't. I'm not the only one who thinks this is unfair so if you want to argue that even more than you have then take it to PM.
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I'm not the only one who thinks this is unfair so if you want to argue that even more than you have then take it to PM.
I'd rather not, I've already got over 5 pages of PM's from you.
Moreover,
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument."
William G. McAdoo
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I'm not the only one who thinks this is unfair so if you want to argue that even more than you have then take it to PM.
I'd rather not, I've already got over 5 pages of PM's from you.
Moreover,
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument."
William G. McAdoo
Wait, I just wanna know what the two sides of the argument are. What is everyone arguing?
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They're arguing about how it is unlikely to get a 99.95 without doing a lote or spesh. Yes, it is unfair but vce is a system. If you want the 99.95 that badly then play the system. What's wrong with a 99.90?...
All the same to me, you'll still have a god like status.
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They're arguing about how it is unlikely to get a 99.95 without doing a lote or spesh. Yes, it is unfair but vce is a system. If you want the 99.95 that badly then play the system. What's wrong with a 99.90?...
All the same to me, you'll still have a god like status.
It's not a massive deal, and it'll affect only a very small percentage of VCE students, but it still remains a valid argument.
It's not that anyone wants that perfect ATAR so badly. It's just acknowledging that the system discriminates against certain students, especially the humanities and arts/music/drama ones.
It's all well and good to say "play the system" when you're naturally a maths student, but for a majority of my friends that's really not viable, because their strengths lie in other areas (in which they work hard in).
It's not massively wrong, but a system which
a) makes it impossible for a certain group of students to access a perfect score
b) scales against that same group of students
is wrong all the same.
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Agree. It's a minor thing, but Monash only offers the Excellence scholarship (which is immensely helpful) to 99,95ers - so I'd think that non-maths/lote students should at least have the chance.
Hence my idea to manually cap the 99,95 cutoff to 209. Or not allow scaling past 50.
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Thank you to both Menang and thushan. I need not to explain anymore. pi can keep harping on about ignorance or whatever the f**k he likes, I can't be bothered explaining when it has been so nicely laid out by the two posters above me.
They're arguing about how it is unlikely to get a 99.95 without doing a lote or spesh. Yes, it is unfair but vce is a system. If you want the 99.95 that badly then play the system. What's wrong with a 99.90?...
All the same to me, you'll still have a god like status.
Also a correction - it's not unlikely, it's impossible
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So true. Wish I could like your post. But for some reason we can't anymore <.<
Off topic.
We can't like people's posts in this part of the forum as they didn't want people to gain respect for just posting their ATAR scores.
Okay thanks, I was wondering about that. Fair enough.
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but if we were to cap it at 209, like thushan said, there is a potential for more than .05% of the VCE population to obtain a 99.95, and that would just mess up the whole percentile thingo, won't it?
Students who get 50s in languages and subjects like specialist maths may display a greater level of intelligence than those who do so in the humanities subjects
Especially when it comes to maths, for some people, no matter how hard they study, they would still be unable to wholly comprehend or grasp the concepts in specialist maths
The same thing may apply for Language, Music and Art subjects (as there are people out there who have a natural aptitude towards these sorts of this)
They could practice as much as possible, but they may still struggle to create pieces or perform musical items as well as those who are naturally talented in this areas
But this sort of thing may not apply as much to students studying the humanities subjects
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but if we were to cap it at 209, like thushan said, there is a potential for more than .05% of the VCE population to obtain a 99.95, and that would just mess up the whole percentile thingo, won't it?
The bell curving of subjects is a really bad method and the only reason it exists is because there's no financially viable alternative.
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But this sort of thing may not apply as much to students studying the humanities subjects
It applied to me...that's why I never did humanities subjects!
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Especially when it comes to maths, for some people, no matter how hard they study, they would still be unable to wholly comprehend or grasp the concepts in specialist maths
That was me...
hence why i never touched specialist, physics or the sciences...!
I believe i am thushan's antithesis to a mild degree...
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Thank you to both Menang and thushan. I need not to explain anymore. pi can keep harping on about ignorance or whatever the f**k he likes, I can't be bothered explaining when it has been so nicely laid out by the two posters above me.
They're arguing about how it is unlikely to get a 99.95 without doing a lote or spesh. Yes, it is unfair but vce is a system. If you want the 99.95 that badly then play the system. What's wrong with a 99.90?...
All the same to me, you'll still have a god like status.
Also a correction - it's not unlikely, it's impossible
Isnt it possible if a proportion of students who do the mega scalers dont do as well? So their aggregates are lower? And the humanities students do extremely well?
Idk, like i said it is unfair but their isnt much you can do to change how vcaa view the situation.
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Actually...not entirely true. They could be taking Further as their maths. Also Bazza that's a bit shortsighted of you ;P
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Clearly languages are humanities subjects.
Joseph Moore's 99.95 was very impressive:
2011:
Classical Societies & Cultures: 41 (43)
English: 50 (50)
History - Australian History: 50 (50)
LOTE Latin: 41 (53.2)
Literature: 50 (50)
2010:
History - Revolutions: 50 (50)
Philosophy: 44 (45.2)
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Since you've consistently ignored when I posted this, what about the humanities subjects that have small class sizes and allow perhaps a dozen students to score over 40 each year. I can't think of any science subjects that do this. Look at classical history from 2 posts above; getting full marks on the exam doesn't guarantee a 50, because with a cohort of ~500, the percentage of 50s allowed is 1. This is not the only problem with humanities subjects, but it's one of the worst.
Science students are technically on the unfair side of the +5 to language scaling, but when you look at the system as a whole, saying that they're disadvantaged is ludicrous.
How can anyone be completely a humanities student (without science, language, math?) it would have to be
English
Literature
Revs
International
Studio ARts
or something ridiculous like that. Fact of the matter is most "humanities" students do a math or science or language and this receives the most unfair scaling of all (+5). So it's redundant to refer to humanities students as being disadvantaged as so few really are.
Aside from the fact that that's a terrible definition of a "humanities" student, I know plenty of people with subject choices like that. Also, obviously since they're a minority, we clearly shouldn't care about them being disadvantaged... (seriously?!)
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Thank you to both Menang and thushan. I need not to explain anymore. pi can keep harping on about ignorance or whatever the f**k he likes, I can't be bothered explaining when it has been so nicely laid out by the two posters above me.
Calm down mate, I am entitled to my opinion, as are you and everyone else. You don't convince someone by resorting to swearing, that lowers your stance on an issue and shows that you don't really know what you are "harping" on about (ie. debating101). Good to see you're trying though, keep it up ;D
I'll add a bit more because I just finished my book:
So far, all recent posts revolve around the following premise: "That the current VCE scaling system is flawed and is not perfect, nor can it ever be perfect". That premise was in the earlier posts and has been repeated in many posts since then.
Ok, with that in mind, there is a side to this debate that is rightly claiming that the "99.95" is not accessible to all students, as those without LOTEs or Specialist Maths are unable to achieve this. However, you should also recognise (with the above premise in mind) that no-one is forcing ANY student to do ANY particular set of subject. Furthermore, with the system being inherently flawed, it is up to student to use to array of subjects at hand to their own advantage (ie. 'playing the system') to achieve whatever aims they want for their ATAR. As we are primarily focusing on the 99.95-ers, I'm sure that if they had this score in mind at the end of year 10 (or earlier), and being the brightest minds in the state, would 'play the system' as if it were second nature and hence, would only choose subjects to achieve that 99.95. Being bright minds, many would inevitably succeed (that's why we have 99.95-ers today).
The other main point is how this is somehow "unfair". Well, I think that with the premise in mind, its as fair as possible with the current system in place. Everyone has a CHANCE to get 99.95, whether or not they do comes down to the state-wide perceived difficulty (ie. via scaling reports) of the subjects they decide to do. If they DECIDE to do 6 subjects that scale down (ie. state-wide perceived "easy" subjects), then they KNOW they won't be able to get 99.95, and hence, don't really have a ground to complain about it. Personally, I don't think someone excelling 6 state-wide perceived "easy" subjects should get the same score as someone excelling 6 state-wide perceived "hard" subjects, it's just logical.
As for "easy" and "hard" 50s (something snakke was attempting to hammer me for), I should have made my position clearer. Look how many 50s Spesh gets (and look how hard those people worked to learn and practice the course work - in hours) compared to a subject like Methods, I think you'll see what I mean by "hard" and "easy" 50s.
(I'm not going to comment on the +5 for LOTEs, as I'm not overly knowledgeable in that department and only know the basics. All i know is that the +5 is a government incentive to encourage studying of LOTEs, and the only problem I have with this is that such incentives are not given to subjects like spesh, which I believe should also be encouraged. Just my two cents though, meh)
Finally, QED.
I'm not going to further debate this with ssnake, as I don't want to get further insulted, and our last attempts have resulted in you either being banned or losing significant amounts of respect points. So, I'd rather not (and don't PM me either). If it makes you feel better and stops your rage, you "win".
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How can anyone be completely a humanities student (without science, language, math?) it would have to be
English
Literature
Revs
International
Studio ARts
or something ridiculous like that. Fact of the matter is most "humanities" students do a math or science or language and this receives the most unfair scaling of all (+5). So it's redundant to refer to humanities students as being disadvantaged as so few really are.
why is this ridiculous??
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^^ lmao pi, are you serious? Obviously we get to choose our own subjects but now the year 11s (i.e. - my year) have chosen their 3/4s and they're not going to change their 3/4s because VCAA fucked them up midway through December by telling them 99.95 is now 210.8
Essentially your saying let the 2012'rs deal with it and then students from then on have a "choice" of whether to get 99.95 or not by not taking Spesh or Language --> and that is somehow a "choice" even though some people may love language/spesh and some people may hate it, thus clearly advantaging those who love those two subjects. interesting perspective :S
A 50 is a 50. A 50 in Further or a 50 in English. In the end the 50 contributes the same amount. There is no such thing as easy/hard 50's. I'm talking after scaling of course, a 50 RAW further is obviously less than 50 RAW Spesh.
And as for my swearing, you labelled me ignorant and if you don't expect a reply than, well, your naive and just weird :S. Meh, my stance is supported by two posters already, I need not explain however if you continue to denigrate me, I will reply.
re:Jdog - IMO +5 to languages is perfectly fine.
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Maybe VCAA want us to learn steet smarts. E.g. "play the system". In the real world people play the system. Teaching you a valuable lesson through scaling. Who would have thunk it?
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Maybe VCAA want us to learn steet smarts. E.g. "play the system". In the real world people play the system. Teaching you a valuable lesson through scaling. Who would have thunk it?
My opinion exactly, but that must be wrong according to ssNake's wisdom.
^^ lmao pi, are you serious?
It's seems that I am. You are completely right and I am completely wrong. None of my points are at all logical and could never match up to yours, which are in fact, far superior. Apologies for trying to contradict you in any way and furthermore, I extend this apology to your feelings which I seem to have hurt in my few posts. Moreover, I shall refrain from speaking my word or opinion whist in threads that you involved in, as my opinion must inevitably be wrong in comparison to yours, which is so true that is great enough to find flaws in the any of mine.
pi apologises for any inconvenience caused.
*bows down to the great ssNake and his superior points and argumentative skills*
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Maybe VCAA want us to learn steet smarts. E.g. "play the system". In the real world people play the system. Teaching you a valuable lesson through scaling. Who would have thunk it?
that's fine - at least don't label it as [fair]. It's [unfair] and that's my only point - everyone will deal with it obviously, doesn't make it fair.
Thanks pi. Glad you finally saw sense :p
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Ok, with that in mind, there is a side to this debate that is rightly claiming that the "99.95" is not accessible to all students, as those without LOTEs or Specialist Maths are unable to achieve this. However, you should also recognise (with the above premise in mind) that no-one is forcing ANY student to do ANY particular set of subject. Furthermore, with the system being inherently flawed, it is up to student to use to array of subjects at hand to their own advantage (ie. 'playing the system') to achieve whatever aims they want for their ATAR. As we are primarily focusing on the 99.95-ers, I'm sure that if they had this score in mind at the end of year 10 (or earlier), and being the brightest minds in the state, would 'play the system' as if it were second nature and hence, would only choose subjects to achieve that 99.95. Being bright minds, many would inevitably succeed (that's why we have 99.95-ers today).
Finally, QED.
pi, it's all well and good to say "everyone can choose to do languages or spesh if they so wish" if you're good at languages or spesh. But the system, ideally, should really try to allow everyone the chance at full marks by choosing what they love, not what scales up most.
That paragraph just reminded me about the classic anti-homosexual argument that says "but gays can marry too! they just have to marry people of the opposite gender!" - it just doesn't work that way.
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pi, it's all well and good to say "everyone can choose to do languages or spesh if they so wish" if you're good at languages or spesh. But the system, ideally, should really try to allow everyone the chance at full marks by choosing what they love, not what scales up most.
That's the key word here, and the fact is (see my 'premise') that the system is not ideal for everyone, and can never possibly be ideal for everyone. And as we all agreed earlier in this thread, the system (the scaling system) is inherently flawed, and therefore, it is up to us to make the best of it as it is very unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. All of my points revolve around that premise.
My post wasn't saying the system was "correct", it was just saying that there IS an opportunity for everyone to achieve the highest score with this system, and that if we want more people wo be given access choosing subjects that they "like" to achieve this score, then we'd need a system revamp. And this isn't going to happen.
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pi, it's all well and good to say "everyone can choose to do languages or spesh if they so wish" if you're good at languages or spesh. But the system, ideally, should really try to allow everyone the chance at full marks by choosing what they love, not what scales up most.
That's the key word here, and the fact is (see my 'premise') that the system is not ideal for everyone, and can never possibly be ideal for everyone. And as we all agreed earlier in this thread, the system (the scaling system) is inherently flawed, and therefore, it is up to us to make the best of it as it is very unlikely to change in the foreseeable future. All of my points revolve around that premise.
My post wasn't saying the system was "correct", it was just saying that there IS an opportunity for everyone to achieve the highest score with this system, and that if we want more people wo be given access choosing subjects that they "like" to achieve this score, then we'd need a system revamp. And this isn't going to happen.
So basically the tl;dr version of this entire thread would be "the VCE system is unfair, but suck it up"? :P
I don't think a revamp of VCE is really all that impossible... with the introduction of a national curriculum and all that, here's hoping that the new system will even up the playing field between all students, because, as we have just established, VCE currently discriminates against students of particular subjects.
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How can anyone be completely a humanities student (without science, language, math?) it would have to be
English
Literature
Revs
International
Studio ARts
or something ridiculous like that. Fact of the matter is most "humanities" students do a math or science or language and this receives the most unfair scaling of all (+5). So it's redundant to refer to humanities students as being disadvantaged as so few really are.
why is this ridiculous??
Because if you regard humanities students as those who don't do a math, science, or langauge, it leaves such a small subject number choice that it is ridiculous to say the "humanities" student is the only one disadvantaged. My whole point is it's much, much better to say non spesh/lang student - definitely not synonymous with the humanities student
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How can anyone be completely a humanities student (without science, language, math?) it would have to be
English
Literature
Revs
International
Studio ARts
or something ridiculous like that. Fact of the matter is most "humanities" students do a math or science or language and this receives the most unfair scaling of all (+5). So it's redundant to refer to humanities students as being disadvantaged as so few really are.
why is this ridiculous??
Because if you regard humanities students as those who don't do a math, science, or langauge, it leaves such a small subject number choice that it is ridiculous to say the "humanities" student is the only one disadvantaged. My whole point is it's much, much better to say non spesh/lang student - definitely not synonymous with the humanities student
Fair enough, but the majority of non-spesh, non-lang students are students who take humanities subjects for most of their VCE course.
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How can anyone be completely a humanities student (without science, language, math?) it would have to be
English
Literature
Revs
International
Studio ARts
or something ridiculous like that. Fact of the matter is most "humanities" students do a math or science or language and this receives the most unfair scaling of all (+5). So it's redundant to refer to humanities students as being disadvantaged as so few really are.
why is this ridiculous??
Because if you regard humanities students as those who don't do a math, science, or langauge, it leaves such a small subject number choice that it is ridiculous to say the "humanities" student is the only one disadvantaged. My whole point is it's much, much better to say non spesh/lang student - definitely not synonymous with the humanities student
Fair enough, but the majority of non-spesh, non-lang students are students who take humanities subjects for most of their VCE course.
Eng, Physics, Chem, Methods, Bio, Further max 99.90
Eng Physics Chem Literature PE Music max 99.90
etc. etc. I would hesitate in saying the majority, but that's really beside my point
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So basically the tl;dr version of this entire thread would be "the VCE system is unfair, but suck it up"? :P
Actually, that's pretty much it :) Although is depends on your definition of unfair, and everyone will have their own view on what "unfair" means in relation to VCE depending on how they see the need to "play the system".
edit: you could easily replace the words 'the VCE system' with 'life', and suddenly we'd all accept that. Just something to consider
I don't think a revamp of VCE is really all that impossible... with the introduction of a national curriculum and all that, here's hoping that the new system will even up the playing field between all students, because, as we have just established, VCE currently discriminates against students of particular subjects.
Maybe, I'll guess we'll have to wait and see
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Given that the study score is a ranking, for smaller studies less people will achieve a certain score, that's the way the system is structured currently. A subject like classical with 500 students having the same number of 50s as something with 1000 or 2000 students just wouldn't work.
Yes, correct, this is why the subject system is broken...
How do you know that student received full marks on everything? if a student receives full marks on all 3 GA there's no reason he shouldn't recieve a 50. For physics you basically need full marks for a 50 as well. Latin has a cohort of ~150 and there were people on 49 this year. A much smaller cohort than classical.
Spoke to the examiner. Another example is Renaissance (Menang can cover this in more depth). If you get 80/80 on the exam, you can end up with a 45-49 depending on SAC marks, whereas 100% on exams in bio/psych/maths etc. would guarantee a 50 (with comparable SAC scores).
But what alternative can you suggest Russ? There is no objective way that i can see of balancing the current problems in the system whilst still keeping a logical objective scaling system.
Why do we have to keep the scaling system? There's no reason other than $$$
Furthermore, with the system being inherently flawed, it is up to student to use to array of subjects at hand to their own advantage (ie. 'playing the system') to achieve whatever aims they want for their ATAR
The fact that this is true is an absolute shame, especially since the advice is typically "do what you love, not what scales".
I don't think a revamp of VCE is really all that impossible... with the introduction of a national curriculum and all that, here's hoping that the new system will even up the playing field between all students, because, as we have just established, VCE currently discriminates against students of particular subjects.
I agree, it's very possible. The metric by which we evaluate students could easily be adjusted and made more equitable, it's just too expensive and given the government's priorities, is never going to happen.
edit: you could easily replace the words 'the VCE system' with 'life', and suddenly we'd all accept that. Just something to consider
Life is something that we can't plausibly change. The high school education system is. And there's a difference between laboring within a system you dislike and accepting that system.
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So its been over two weeks. At first i was dissapointed with getting 77.45 but got over it. Now what pisses me off is people who seemed to have consumed alcohol every weekend. Barely seemed to care about school at all got a higher atar then me. and now i feel like a failure just because i cared.
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So its been over two weeks. At first i was dissapointed with getting 77.45 but got over it. Now what pisses me off is people who seemed to have consumed alcohol every weekend. Barely seemed to care about school at all got a higher atar then me. and now i feel like a failure just because i cared.
Just remember that you're in the top 23% of the state which is a feat in itself. The truth is, the people who try and have the determination to pursue their dreams are the ones who achieve what they want in life. Moreover, a lot of these people who claim they partied during VCE are just liars who are attempting to put on a facade which suggests they don't care about school when they truly do.
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Hey do you have to meticulously peruse over the stats on the VCAA website to find out how your ATAR relates to the percentage of the state you were in, or is there some table I can't find? Just interested to find out..
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Hey do you have to meticulously peruse over the stats on the VCAA website to find out how your ATAR relates to the percentage of the state you were in, or is there some table I can't find? Just interested to find out..
You'd be in the top 10.1% of the state (100-89.9) :)
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Thanks, thank god I didn't do any maths, as you can see they aren't exactly my forte :P
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Thanks, thank god I didn't do any maths, as you can see they aren't exactly my forte :P
The ATAR is a percentile rank...
By definition, if you got an ATAR of 80 you are better than 80% of the state (meaning you are in the top 20%)