Class of 2011: ATAR and SS Discussion Thread

[REBORN]

I don't care about +5 to languages - you'd be foolish to not acknowledge the difficulty of learning a language. It isn't a subject where it can be studied out of a book especially come oral exam; it requires a holistic understanding and continual, everlasting study. The only scaling that annoys me is Specialist Maths because as paulsterio has said, people with subjects that stop at 50 can never get a 99.95. Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.
Hopefully next year spesh lowers and the 99.95 aggregate lowers as uni (5.5) is taken out.

You'd be foolish not to acknowledge the difficulty of learning Spesh. I hope it still scales past 50 as it encourages Maths students who might be hesitant to take a challenging subject. If it didn't who would take a difficult subject like Spesh?

Erm I don't know where I said Spesh wasn't difficult? :S

Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.

re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!

[queendaisy]

re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!

i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.

[pi]

re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!

i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.

...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).

Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.

You are making the big assumption that people who get 99.95 don't like languages and/or spesh. You don't do a subject like latin or spesh because you hate it and just want 99.95. You are so ignorant.

Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.

'Satisfied' is an odd word to use, it's not like they had a choice... And ACTUALLY, people were not happy with methods and spesh scaling being so close (both spesh students and spesh teachers), so in fact, they were not "satisfied" and the trend was not a good one for encouraging the highest level of VCE mathematics.

[louise_2012]

...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).

Getting a 50 in any subject, irrespective of their perceived difficulty is always hard. And were everyone to start to take the 'easy' subjects to get an easier perfect score, the competition would increase drastically in those subjects and you would be back to a situation where it is equally difficult for anyone to achieve a 99.95.

I can't ever see the fairness in effectively barring specific groups of people from ever getting a particular grade, irrespective of the possible consequences. The system worked fine until now, everyone had the chance to reach that top spot. The spesh scaling has fucked that up and now a group of people are competing for 99.95 while the rest are only allowed to compete for 99.90.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Jdog]

re: thushan, even 210 cap is okay, as long as it's a possibility for non-spesh/lang people!

i agree! how is it fair that someone who gets 6 perfect scores not get 99.95 just because of the subjects they chose.

...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).

Also hypocritical on VCAA's part IMO - always advocating for students to choose subjects they like rather than subjects that scale but for those very few who want 99.95 they must choose language/spesh.

You are making the big assumption that people who get 99.95 don't like languages and/or spesh. You don't do a subject like latin or spesh because you hate it and just want 99.95. You are so ignorant.

Um for the past, I dno, 5 years, Spesh has been taken? +7 satisfied people. +11 is just a bonus.

'Satisfied' is an odd word to use, it's not like they had a choice... And ACTUALLY, people were not happy with methods and spesh scaling being so close (both spesh students and spesh teachers), so in fact, they were not "satisfied" and the trend was not a good one for encouraging the highest level of VCE mathematics.

lol psychology is a legit hard subject, id say probably a tiny bit less harder than bio

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[pi]

^^ I was just choosing subjects that scaled down

[queendaisy]

...And I don't think its fair for someone who does perfects 6 generally perceived "easy" subjects (bm, further, psych, industry and enterprise, etc.) to get the same score as someone who perfects 6 generally perceived "hard" subjects (Latin, spesh, chem, etc.).

Getting a 50 in any subject, irrespective of their perceived difficulty is always hard. And were everyone to start to take the 'easy' subjects to get an easier perfect score, the competition would increase drastically in those subjects and you would be back to a situation where it is equally difficult for anyone to achieve a 99.95.

I can't ever see the fairness in effectively barring specific groups of people from ever getting a particular grade, irrespective of the possible consequences. The system worked fine until now, everyone had the chance to reach that top spot. The spesh scaling has fucked that up and now a group of people are competing for 99.95 while the rest are only allowed to compete for 99.90.

Okay, even if getting a 50 in say further is easier than getting a 50 in spesh.. it's like saying, it's not fair that someone who got an aggregate of 219 gets the same score as someone who got 211. what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[pi]

what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.

I think that is what you'd have to say. I heard this from a previous 99.95-er, he said his success in VCE was all about the "three Ps":
1) Persistence
2) Practice
3) Playing the system to your benefit


I'd have to agree with him.

[queendaisy]

what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.

I think that is what you'd have to say. I heard this from a previous 99.95-er, he said his success in VCE was all about the "three Ps":
1) Persistence
2) Practice
3) Playing the system to your benefit


I'd have to agree with him.

I'd agree too. That doesn't mean the system is fair, it's just the truth. A person should be able to achieve any atar (including the very high end ones) with the first two (and I'd have to add to that list, natural ability), and not have to 'play the system'. What if it doesn't benefit them? Not everyone is great at maths and/or languages, or can do a uni extension subject.
In fact, the system shouldn't be benefiting (bad english, sorry) anyone.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Menang]

what are you supposed to say to the kid who gets 6 perfect 50s.. yeh you beat everyone in the state in all your subjects but it's still not good enough cos 99.95s are only for particular subjects.

I think that is what you'd have to say. I heard this from a previous 99.95-er, he said his success in VCE was all about the "three Ps":
1) Persistence
2) Practice
3) Playing the system to your benefit


I'd have to agree with him.

If you define success as getting a 99.95 ATAR, then yeah, that might be true.

Personally, I think success in VCE is all about
1. Learning lots
2. Loving what you learnt
3. Getting into the course you want

For some people, to satisfy #1 and #2, they can't do spesh or languages. Either because that's not where their interests lie, or because they're not naturally gifted at either maths or languages. They may be a genius in humanities or visual arts or theatre, but they still won't be able to access the 99.95, which is a little unfair.

Like I said before, the competition for spesh may generally be tighter, but I think it's just as hard to get a 50 in drama or renaissance (maybe harder) as spesh. Both in terms of the content of the course and the competition at that level. So it's not quite fair that spesh is the only one out of the three that scales past 50.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[pi]

That doesn't mean the system is fair, it's just the truth.

Its not perfectly fair, but its the best of a bad system (as Russ pointed out earlier). We cannot hope to fix the 99.95 issue unless we revamp the system, and that will never happen in the foreseeable future

@Menang, I understand what you say, but I did say 'his success', not general success.

[WhoTookMyUsername]

eh, isn't languages which has the most unfair scaling of all a "humanities" subject?

[Menang]

eh, isn't languages which has the most unfair scaling of all a "humanities" subject?

I wouldn't consider it under humanities, no. Obviously, lots of humanities students do languages, but so do lots of maths/science students. I'd say languages deserve their own category here.

And also, I wouldn't say languages has the most unfair scaling of all subjects.

[sunintherain]

so how many "humanities" students are there then? how many people don't take a science, math or language...

I'm probably considered a Humanities student, except I love French and Maths, but didn't take French because I just wanted to do History soooo badly and I had to boot a subject. But I know that I will regret it because I was really good at french and because of its mega scaling..

[queendaisy]

we don't necessarily have to classify students as 'maths' or 'humanities'. also, if 'this particular argument' you are referring to is the whole 99.95 issue not being achievable by some students.. then science doesn't scale above 50. neither do 2 of the 3 maths. Point is, there are many more people who don't do a scaling above 50 subject than those who do.
Anyway, I have to agree, VCAA have done a pretty good job of trying to make it fair, and I dont think its even possible for there to be a perfect system.