Remember that Monash also offers JD, unless for whatever reason you can't possibly go to Monash. So that doubles your chances.
I'll be honest, i actually was caught in melbourne mania and didn't even concider monash >.< But yea, completely true, and it looks like a just as good course, goes for the same amount of time too ,and classes are taught in the city, not at clayton so that's a big plus for me too.
But still, do you know how many CSP places Monash offer for their JD/ how hard these places are hard to get?
The LSAT is designed to measure skills that are considered essential for success in law school: the reading and comprehension of complex texts with accuracy and insight; the organization and management of information and the ability to draw reasonable inferences from it; the ability to think critically; and the analysis and evaluation of the reasoning and arguments of others.
The three multiple-choice question types in the LSAT are:
1. Reading Comprehension Questions
These questions measure the ability to read, with understanding and insight, examples of lengthy and complex materials similar to those commonly encountered in law school. The Reading Comprehension section contains four sets of reading questions, each consisting of a selection of reading material, followed by five to eight questions that test reading and reasoning abilities.
2. Analytical Reasoning Questions
These questions measure the ability to understand a structure of relationships and to draw logical conclusions about that structure. You are asked to reason deductively from a set of statements and rules or principles that describe relationships among persons, things, or events. Analytical Reasoning questions reflect the kinds of complex analyses that a law student performs in the course of legal problem solving.
3. Logical Reasoning Questions
These questions assess the ability to analyze, critically evaluate, and complete arguments as they occur in ordinary language. Each Logical Reasoning question requires the test taker to read and comprehend a short passage, then answer a question about it. The questions are designed to assess a wide range of skills involved in thinking critically, with an emphasis on skills that are central to legal reasoning. These skills include drawing well-supported conclusions, reasoning by analogy, determining how additional evidence affects an argument, applying principles or rules, and identifying argument flaws.
Two side points:
1) Will i be disadvantaged having not already done a course at monash when applying for the monash jd?
and
2) Will my enter/atar count for anything at all in my application? e.g. getting 99.85, just missing out a guranteed CSP place, will that be taken into concidertaion at all?
I did some notetaking for a few JD classes, they were mostly middle-aged businesspeople, most of them probably didn't even do the VCE
crap, so is doing the jd gonna be superrrrr boring cos of the ppl there will be likely to be at least 10+ years older than me? >.<
1) WOW i did not think it was that little..........>.< dammit, so basicly i'm going to be competing for one of 40 places......crapLol ditto. :O
1) WOW i did not think it was that little..........>.< dammit, so basicly i'm going to be competing for one of 40 places......crapLol ditto. :O
So basically a CSP means you have the equivalent of a scholarship and you don't have to pay the normal $90k? And is the JD more advanced and accelerated than the LLB?
A CSP is not equivalent to a scholarship; a CSP means that the government subsidizes your course and you can defer payment until you make over a certain amount. So you'll still have to contribute to the cost of your course, whilst a scholarship student has the fees waived by the uni (and may even get an allowance)Ah ok thanks for clearing that up! So you pay the same amount for the course whether you are CSP or not? Also, are there scholarships for the Melbourne JD?
Ah ok thanks for clearing that up! So you pay the same amount for the course whether you are CSP or not?
a full fee student pays wayy moreeeee than a CSP student. A scholarship holder pays nothing.So how much would the typical full fee student pay for say, a Bachelor of Commerce at Melb Uni compared with a CSP student? And what determines whether you are a full fee/CSP? (scholarship is determined by if you get a 99.9 or 99.95 ATAR or through an access scholarship).
scholarship isn't solely based on a 99.9 or 99.95...you can get those and not get one, or you can get one without getting those marks
Oh! I was expecting it to be quite a bit more expensive then 8k a year! :D
How do CSP and full fee places work for the Juris doctor at Melbourne then?
for melbourne: full fee JD- $89,100, CSP JD- don't specifically know, but i'm guessing in the region of 28/29 grandThanks for the info :) So basically there are ~40 CSP places for non-access applicants for JD each year, and around 50 full fee places... does anyone know how many people apply for the JD a year? Must be tough competition to get in.
for monash: full fee JD- $80,100, CSP JD- $26,031
Undegraduate fees vary as the subjects you choose will change the cost, but yea, it should be in the region of 8 grand a year
Also, it's worth noting that if you're a domestic student doing a full-fee JD, you can still defer your payments through FEE-HELP. It's basically the same system as CSP, you just end up paying more once you earn over a certain amount.
a 100 grand (or there abouts when you add in ur undegraduate degree) cloud hanging over your head...... :'( that's it, i'm hitting the books NOW and getting me my 99.95 to get my guranteed place in law.....(i wish :-[)LOL does 99.95 guarantee a CSP place in postgraduate law as well as an undergraduate scholarship?
yea, 99.90 or 99.95 gurantees a CSP place in the melbourne jd providing you do a undegraduate degree at UoM and it give you a scolorship for your undergraduateOoh! That's great, do you still need the LSAT and stuff as well as a H2A average?
no, you don't have to sit the lsat if you are offered a guranteed place, you don't need to write the personal statement eitherLol 99.9/99.95 brings so much advantages... that is sooo good. Now I feel much more motivated to give VCE my best shot! I wonder how well I'm gonna handle 5 VCE + 1 UMEP subject in year 12... :P
and lol, if you get a 99.90/99.95, i doubt maintaining H2A adverage is gonna be too hard
And is the JD more advanced and accelerated than the LLB?
and lol, if you get a 99.90/99.95, i doubt maintaining H2A adverage is gonna be too hard
and lol, if you get a 99.90/99.95, i doubt maintaining H2A adverage is gonna be too hard
You'd be surprised. No identifying details, but I know students with the guarantee who don't have the H2A average. 80% is the cutoff for H1s for a reason...
H2A 75%-79% --> Isn't that going to be easier to maintain in some courses rather than others?and lol, if you get a 99.90/99.95, i doubt maintaining H2A adverage is gonna be too hardYou'd be surprised. No identifying details, but I know students with the guarantee who don't have the H2A average. 80% is the cutoff for H1s for a reason...
H2A 75%-79% --> Isn't that going to be easier to hold in some courses rather than others?and lol, if you get a 99.90/99.95, i doubt maintaining H2A adverage is gonna be too hardYou'd be surprised. No identifying details, but I know students with the guarantee who don't have the H2A average. 80% is the cutoff for H1s for a reason...
And is the JD more advanced and accelerated than the LLB?
Not more advanced. I don't know where that misconception comes from, all law degrees are fundamentally the same.
Maybe more accelerated (I think a JD is 3 years cf. LLB 4 years) but you do exactly the same subjects, because you are not recognised as a law graduate unless you have done a certain set of compulsory subjects (and in addition, you must do a set of quasi-compulsory subjects if you want to practice law in Victoria).
I think the misconception comes from the D bit of the JD. Doctor is more advanced than bachelor's right?Lol yeah I suppose :) I just thought that postgraduate law would be more advanced than undergraduate. If you're in Monash, don't you do the LLB (Bachelor of Laws) then the JD? Or just one or the other? Because there's not much point in learning the same thing again...
If you're in Monash, don't you do the LLB (Bachelor of Laws) then the JD? Or just one or the other? Because there's not much point in learning the same thing again...
Lol yeah I suppose :) I just thought that postgraduate law would be more advanced than undergraduate. If you're in Monash, don't you do the LLB (Bachelor of Laws) then the JD? Or just one or the other? Because there's not much point in learning the same thing again...
Ahh ok, what if you have completed an undergraduate law degree (LLB) and want to do further study of law then? Is there like a masters degree or something?Lol yeah I suppose :) I just thought that postgraduate law would be more advanced than undergraduate. If you're in Monash, don't you do the LLB (Bachelor of Laws) then the JD? Or just one or the other? Because there's not much point in learning the same thing again...JD = LLB for people who already have a degree
LLB = JD for people who don't have a degree
Ahh ok, what if you have completed an undergraduate law degree (LLB) and want to do further study of law then? Is there like a masters degree or something?
Yes masters of law, but that's different from JD - that's like any other masters degree, you do it through research or coursework in a specific area of law.
| Monash JD LAW7212 - Australian legal system LAW7079 - Legal research and problem solving LAW7264 - Principles of criminal law and procedure LAW7428 - Contract A LAW7429 - Contract B LAW7267 - Principles of property law LAW7270 - Advanced property law LAW7269 - Principles of equity LAW7271 - Principles of trusts LAW7266 - Principles of torts LAW7273 - Principles of evidence LAW7275 - Principles of corporations law LAW7277 - Advanced corporations law LAW7268 - Principles of constitutional law LAW7274 - Principles of administrative law LAW7331 - Lawyers' responsibilities LAW7272 - Principles of civil procedure | Monash LLB LAW1101 Introduction to legal reasoning LAW1104 Research and writing LAW3301 Criminal law and procedure A LAW3302 Criminal law B LAW2101 Contract A LAW2102 Contract B LAW3401 Property A LAW3402 Property B LAW4169 Equity LAW4170 Trusts LAW2201 Torts A LAW2202 Torts B LAW5159 Evidence LAW4171 Corporations law LAW3201 Constitutional law LAW3101 Administrative law LAW5125 Lawyers, ethics and society LAW5104 Civil procedure |
Nope. JD = juris doctor. It is a general law degree, exactly the same as the LLB, but for those who already have a previous degree, whereas LLB is for the newbies who have never been to uni before.
A master of laws is different. It is like any other masters degree. You undertake either research or coursework in a specific area of law. You need either a JD or a LLB to do a masters in law.
You'd hope I know what I'm talking about, considering I'm doing law and considering a masters degree later on...
The monash JD is a master of laws(Juris doctor)
http://www.monash.edu.au/study/coursefinder/course/3387/
ok, now i'm really confused........is the monash JD a master of laws or not?
(I blame the Melbourne Model for all this confusion)
Pretty sure it's just JD. LLM(JD) is rather misleading...
See here:
The Master of Laws is an advanced academic degree,(as opposed to a professional degree in law, such as the Juris Doctor)
The appropiate designation is 'Jane Smith, LLM (Juris Doctor)'
Pretty sure it's just JD. LLM(JD) is rather misleading...
See here:
The Master of Laws is an advanced academic degree,(as opposed to a professional degree in law, such as the Juris Doctor)
no, again going off the oh so trusty brochure :PQuote
The appropiate designation is 'Jane Smith, LLM (Juris Doctor)'
out of intrest niwa, seeing as you are one out of "academics and the slightly crazy people who for some reason like law." what area of law are you concidering to do your (real :P ) masters in?
So if I complete my JD at UoM and I become very interested in law and want to pursue more research/studies I take the LLM?
A question more directed at ninwa:
Do you know if the course quality of the JD will be anyworse than the LLB? The JD is taught on the city, far away from the main clayton campus. Would all the 'good' lecturers be working at the main campus, hence the JD people would be left with the worse lecurers?
A question more directed at ninwa:
Do you know if the course quality of the JD will be anyworse than the LLB? The JD is taught on the city, far away from the main clayton campus. Would all the 'good' lecturers be working at the main campus, hence the JD people would be left with the worse lecurers?
I really don't know, but last year I had to do some notetaking for a JD subject in the city, and the lecturer turned out to be my Torts A lecturer! So I'm guessing that happens a bit (i.e. Clayton lecturers running to and from the city to teach).
EDIT: just had a look at the academic staff, I recognise the majority of those names, so don't worry I'm pretty sure you're not getting an inferior version of the LLB :P
Less expensive too I guess? And less soul-killing...
So is there a Ph.D in law, or is LLM the highest academic law degree?
http://www.monash.edu.au/study/coursefinder/course/0069/
Which leads me to ask, why LLM instead of a Ph.D? Less time?
Just wondering - does anyone know why Melb Uni scrapped undergraduate law (ie. LLB)?
Just wondering - does anyone know why Melb Uni scrapped undergraduate law (ie. LLB)?
US universities don't even have undergrad commerce or law? Wow... so if you want to do law at, say, Harvard or something, you have to do undergrad arts or science, then go into postgraduate law (similar to the Melbourne model).Just wondering - does anyone know why Melb Uni scrapped undergraduate law (ie. LLB)?Attempt to emulate US universities, where the only undergraduate degrees are Arts and Science.
out of intrest, anyone know how you get into postgraduate law at ivy league unis?? do you need to sit the SAT or anything, and what else is it based on?Check this out: http://www.law.harvard.edu/prospective/jd/apply/the-application-process/jdfaq.html
US universities don't even have undergrad commerce or law? Wow... so if you want to do law at, say, Harvard or something, you have to do undergrad arts or science, then go into postgraduate law (similar to the Melbourne model).Just wondering - does anyone know why Melb Uni scrapped undergraduate law (ie. LLB)?Attempt to emulate US universities, where the only undergraduate degrees are Arts and Science.
Basically it comes from a line of thought (pretty much what James Lu advocates, incidentally) that a University education should be about the EDUCATION, as opposed to the vocational aspect of it. By giving undergraduates a "general knowledge" of various disciplines (in the US, you HAVE to do a certain number of Arts, Science, Language and Writing subjects, amongst other things I think), their philosophy is to produce students who are well-rounded and prepared for the work force both skills-wise and mind-wise - hence why putting the skills part of the education (ie. the Law or business degree) after the "knowledge" part is enforced.LOL did James end up accepting the offer to Oxford or Yale?
Basically it comes from a line of thought (pretty much what James Lu advocates, incidentally) that a University education should be about the EDUCATION, as opposed to the vocational aspect of it. By giving undergraduates a "general knowledge" of various disciplines (in the US, you HAVE to do a certain number of Arts, Science, Language and Writing subjects, amongst other things I think), their philosophy is to produce students who are well-rounded and prepared for the work force both skills-wise and mind-wise - hence why putting the skills part of the education (ie. the Law or business degree) after the "knowledge" part is enforced.LOL did James end up accepting the offer to Oxford or Yale?
Yeah, personally, I think the Melb Model/US structure is a great idea as it does broaden the experiences and views of students. I don't just want to do one area of study in my uni course, and of course I would love to incorporate arts subjects (such as creative writing, politics or history) and some law into my undergrad commerce degree (breadth is awesome :))...
Hahaha oh man yeah, you're in the same position as me kind of, only I am already at Melbz.
I have guaranteed full fee and currently have a H1 average.
However, I can't afford 90 000 dollars :D
So I will have to compete if I decide I definitely want to do the JD. It doesn't seem too bad though, like, it will be competitive but if you keep scores that are above your peers then it seems less daunting? It doesn't phase me so much now, it seems like something that could be achievable.
Only this guy outside REB after the final exam I had, which was also the last exam time slot, last Friday, who was like 'oh yeah man, gonna go to the library now, got the LSAT'.
I was all D: 'I just wrote 32 pages, how are you going to a library now!?'.
Yep, hope I have that awesome motivation when I need it!
Only now, I kind of want to try and do postgraduate journalism in the US.
Which will be fun to afford.
oh yea, totally :P
1) WOW i did not think it was that little..........>.< dammit, so basicly i'm going to be competing for one of 40 places......crapLol ditto. :O
So basically a CSP means you have the equivalent of a scholarship and you don't have to pay the normal $90k? And is the JD more advanced and accelerated than the LLB?
Oh yea, i'm not sure i if was clear. In a CSP place you onyl have to pay a fraction of what you normally pay, and you pay the goverment back when you start working, whereas a scolprsips is given by the university and means you don't have to pay some or all of the money you owe the government.So overall, CSP = Full fee but you can pay it later?
Oh yea, i'm not sure i if was clear. In a CSP place you onyl have to pay a fraction of what you normally pay, and you pay the goverment back when you start working, whereas a scolprsips is given by the university and means you don't have to pay some or all of the money you owe the government.So overall, CSP = Full fee but you can pay it later?