THe Disparity between Private and Public High schools.

[brenden]

I believe that what good government and good private schools have that bad government schools like the one I went to dont have is the strong concern and encouragement that the school must give to enable its students to highly succeed. For example, every time I told my careers teacher that I was aiming for a 90+ atar, he used to put me down all the time by telling me that it's going to be nearly impossible for me to achieve such a score. I was also put down and sometimes ridiculed by other teachers...it seemed as though they didn't want me to achieve my goal. For example, when I achieved my B+ in chemistry mid year exam, for some odd reason my biology teacher came up to me after class and started talking to me as if my score was bad or something..when everyone else in my class achieved lower than me. So yeah, if the government schools were able to to apply a lot more encouragement towards enabling their students to academically succeed, then maybe this disparity between public and private schools will lessen or possibly disappear.

I hope you showed them who's boss.

[Fantasia94]

Hehe yeah I think I did as I achieved exactly 90. :p

[thushan]

Hehe yeah I think I did as I achieved exactly 90. :p

NICE.

[Mr Keshy]

Hehe yeah I think I did as I achieved exactly 90. :p

Big slap in their face I reckon! Great work. Those kinds of people are the worst.. Would've loved to see their faces.

[TheManG]

(I am new)

Food for thought, How many private school students, or select entry students, are currently in the Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery course at Monash University?

Judging from my schools statistics, and anecdotes from others' within that certain course, I do feel as though there is a correlation between the school you go to and that certain course.

Now factor in how many public school students are in that course, disregarding 'good' schools. (i.e. Glen Waverely, Balwyn, Vermont, Brentwood, University High, Box Hill etc... (School's that do not regularly appear in the media)).

I am fortunate enough to, possibly, have the opportunity to study the MBBS at Monash University. Actually, with regards to that, I was overwhelmed at both my UMAT and ATAR score. However, in spite of this, I was saddened by my friends, who did not score as highly as me. Now the thing is though, they are my friends, from my old school, for which I left in Year 8. Now my old school was ranked within the 350~, which isn't too good and I have friends who attend schools ranked 450~. Now the point I am trying to make is that due to myself being at MHS, I have definitely seen students who have scored highly in the UMAT/ATAR and are aiming for MBBS. However, my friends from my old school, despite being very hard working and highly motivated, do not have the opportunity to study the MBBS, as either their UMAT or ATAR was not 'up to scratch'.

tl:dr: I feel as though, despite what ACER is saying, the UMAT is definitely a correlation of intelligence. Look at their contention: UMAT is designed to assess general attributes and abilities gained through prior experience and learning; specifically, the acquisition of skills in critical thinking and problem solving, understanding people and abstract non-verbal reasoning.

So, how could my friends, who attended, I'll be fucking blunt because it does infuriate me, shit schools, obtain these skills? I have talked to them throughout the years and I consistently hear of their complaints about their school being underfunded and that their school lacks resources. Also, they complain of students harassing and bullying them, just because they were aiming for medicine. Students around them consistently felt they were portraying a stereotype. So how the hell could they even develop these skills, if they were not given the opportunity to develop them, through difficult work.

(Sneakily adding this bit in: I do not want to hear the excuse, 'Then your friends should have just moved to better schools'. My friends' parents' came from migrant backgrounds. They did not fucking know about which schools are 'bad' and which are 'good'. In saying that, I believe they put a fucking lot of trust into the education system, by enrolling their children to a local school. In my opinion, their trust was wasted. Also, I should say that some of my friends would feel immensely guilty moving to another school. The reason is that their parents already work hard enough to provide food for them, and even an education, why should they be ungrateful and move to another school, that would cost them bus tickets, a new uniform and even new text books. This is all anecdotally but I hope this provides a little more context)

My point of the matter is that my friends will now have to do 3 years, 4 in some cases, of a Science/Arts course in order to study graduate medicine. Now what really infuriates me is the fact that they come from reasonably hard working families and yet the costs associated with universities is high. However, if we were to look at the students who get 99.90+, we can definitely see that these students come from very prominent schools and as such, Universities are basically throwing money at them to entice them to study at their University. To be completely honest, I feel this is an injustice. These students got into their course, why try and entice them with a lot of money? Just to brag in the media? How about my friends, or even individuals who have to figure out where they have to cut costs in order to pay for University fees? Shouldn't they be more 'in need' of these scholarships instead of these individuals who come from prominent schools?

Look, I'll be honest and say that Monash's $12,000 + Other Benefits, or University of Melbournes HECS Free + $5,000 + Benefits, is a load of shit for these students. I do not know these individuals personally but I really feel as though they would not benefit from this money/benefits. I feel as though they have already benefited enough with their education already, and these Universities are neglecting individuals who are in serious need of this money.

Sigh, That was a bit of a rant but I just wanted to highlight my own view point in the matter.

Thank you very much for your time in reading this. (I would like it if individuals answered my first question, who are studying MBBS)

P.S: I haven't proof read my 'argument', or view point, so please excuse me if you see myself being pedantic and editing little words here and there

P.S.S: I should apologize here though, I feel as though I am making a massive generalisation but still, I do not know how else to convey my thoughts in the matter.

[walkec]

Look, I'll be honest and say that Monash's $12,000 + Other Benefits, or University of Melbournes HECS Free + $5,000 + Benefits, is a load of shit for these students. I do not know these individuals personally but I really feel as though they would not benefit from this money/benefits. I feel as though they have already benefited enough with their education already, and these Universities are neglecting individuals who are in serious need of this money.

This paragraph in particular is one of the worst generalizations I've seen in a while. Maybe I'm getting defensive here because my brother got offered one of these scholarships, but our family and my brother fall into this rare category where yes, my brother has benefited from his education, but he does need the money. We are not rich. I can see where you are coming from, but him and all the other students awarded these scholarships have worked their backsides off (that's not to say no one else has) and should be rewarded for their efforts.

The way I see it, life's unfair, and it seems that it looks like this whole public vs private debate could be something that falls under that category. So make the most of the opportunity you've got, no matter the problems with it.

[brenden]

Life's unfair is a terrible phrase for inequality in society.

[walkec]

Life's unfair is a terrible phrase for inequality in society.

I didn't necessarily mean it like that. As I said earlier, there are thousands of people in the world who will NEVER get the same level of education that VCE offers, so there are occasions where people need to appreciate the little things instead of worrying about the smaller superficial things that could be considered as challenges to overcome, such as going to a not so good school.

[Mr Keshy]

I didn't necessarily mean it like that. As I said earlier, there are thousands of people in the world who will NEVER get the same level of education that VCE offers, so there are occasions where people need to appreciate the little things instead of worrying about the smaller superficial things that could be considered as challenges to overcome, such as going to a not so good school.

I think the issue is that we aren't using our resources efficiently.

I read the issue as, we've got the opportunity to improve our education. Many people in the world will never get the same level of education as us, so we should make it as best as we can.

[Planck's constant]

Limiting CSP places to public school students would be a long jump in the wrong direction

It is basically SEAS with a quota of 100% instead of 25%
I know it is impractical. I know it's against my own personal interests.
But I am not here to discuss my own personal interests. I am here to discuss the issue which the OP brought up.
And the issue is about fairness and equity in Australian society. Don't we call this the Australian Way ?

And when the OP plainly says,

"It so unfair, that private school kids have greater opportunities to achieve their full potential"

.... I believe him. He feels this way, and thats a bad thing for our society.

And when the Go8 come out and say,

"Those who can afford to pay most for schooling have the best access to the most prestigious courses at the most prestigious universities"

...... I believe them also. And when they intoduce SEAS and similar Positive Discrimination schemes to redress inequities, I applaud them. And if they want to extend them, I will not stand in their way.

[Planck's constant]

Life's unfair is a terrible phrase for inequality in society.

Good on you, brenden

[Professor Polonsky]

If what's concerning us is inequality, then we need a far wider approach than enhancing access to education for people from a low social-economic background. Something like, I dunno, giving up on neoliberalism.

[Planck's constant]

If what's concerning us is inequality

That is certainly the issue which is concerning OP.
It's a complicated issue.

I have no doubt that things are a lot easier for kids from the cities, certain SES groups and/or cultures, with financial resources, the right intellectual/cultural environment at home etc ....

But what if you are stuck on a farm? How can this be the kid's fault?
Or a kid who loves his school, but is not supported at home or at school? How can this be the kid's fault?

It's complicated

[Tonychet2]

dude, I feel the same way everytime I reflect on my VCE although I'm only to blame lol slacked off until about year 11...sometimes I wish I applied to Melbourne High, I was unaware of the significant impact that teachers / resources have coming from a rank ~450 school....greensborough college

Anyway throughout year 12 I just went on Atarnotes, had a tutor, went to a bunch of lectures for all my subjects and just tried as hard as I could (within reason, didn't do like 6 hours a day I just studied about 2-3 hours a day and half of my weekends) and managed to get 94.30... which isn't great but its decent

but I do wonder.. what would my atar have been if I went to say melbourne high??

[Russ]

It is basically SEAS with a quota of 100% instead of 25%
I know it is impractical. I know it's against my own personal interests.
But I am not here to discuss my own personal interests. I am here to discuss the issue which the OP brought up.
And the issue is about fairness and equity in Australian society. Don't we call this the Australian Way ?

So your solution to improving the Australian Way is to dramatically reduce the access to university of 33% of students? Yeah, great idea. Extending SEAS is not the same thing as a reverse discrimination policy preventing various students from attending university, solely because of their financial background and/or their educational history.