Should France ban the veil? [OFFTOPIC]

[ninwa]

A google search for 'man stoned for adultery' gives plenty of results.

Interesting. There's almost as many hits for "men stoned for adultery" as there are for women. I never knew that.

That is an extremely empty statement, and ultimately reflects your own inability to acknowledge basic facts. 5,000 women are murdered each year for not wearing the hijab. It's the ugly truth, and something needs to be done about it.

Based on that, you may as well ban Islam altogether, because many more than 5000 people are killed each year in the name of Islam, for things that have nothing at all to do with the hijab.

I'm sure France would love to ban all religions

[Yitzi_K]

A google search for 'man stoned for adultery' gives plenty of results.

Interesting. There's almost as many hits for "men stoned for adultery" as there are for women. I never knew that.

That is an extremely empty statement, and ultimately reflects your own inability to acknowledge basic facts. 5,000 women are murdered each year for not wearing the hijab. It's the ugly truth, and something needs to be done about it.

Based on that, you may as well ban Islam altogether, because many more than 5000 people are killed each year in the name of Islam, for things that have nothing at all to do with the hijab.

I'm sure France would love to ban all religions

That's probably true, but I didn't say all religions, I said Islam. All other religions aren't responsible for even 1/100th of the killings Islam is. Yet we're still told that it's the religion of peace...

[Yitzi_K]

I know there have been killings in the name of God by "Christians" in the last century, thought they were really more a cult by that stage. I know not of Judaism. But really I only know what the media tells me... I haven't done any research or anything... And yes, I have heard of a LOT more about Islam... I hear heaps of crap about Islam..

And therein lies my point. There are a myriad problems with Islam. The forcing of women to wear a veil is but one of them. If you're going to start cracking down on Islamic practices, where do you stop?

There are a myriad of problems with all religions. Why don't we just get rid of them all?

Because Islam is the only one that kills thousands of people annually

[fady_22]

Religion should be dynamic, changing as people change.
Judaism and Christianity, although once supporting the death penalty, no longer do (although it could be argued that Judaism still does, but to a lesser extent). Islam must change as well, as many of the things it supports and encourages are no longer considered OK. Banning the burqa is one step forward to a better future for Islam.

[Yitzi_K]

Religion should be dynamic, changing as people change.
Judaism and Christianity, although once supporting the death penalty, no longer do (although it could be argued that Judaism still does, but to a lesser extent). Islam must change as well, as many of the things it supports and encourages are no longer considered OK. Banning the burqa is one step forward to a better future for Islam.

Indeed I would argue that Judaism still does. The only reason the death penalty is not exercised is because there is no Sanhedrin with the power to impose it.

And why must religions be dynamic? The word of G-d doesn't change.

[Cthulhu]

I know there have been killings in the name of God by "Christians" in the last century, thought they were really more a cult by that stage. I know not of Judaism. But really I only know what the media tells me... I haven't done any research or anything... And yes, I have heard of a LOT more about Islam... I hear heaps of crap about Islam..

And therein lies my point. There are a myriad problems with Islam. The forcing of women to wear a veil is but one of them. If you're going to start cracking down on Islamic practices, where do you stop?

There are a myriad of problems with all religions. Why don't we just get rid of them all?

Because Islam is the only one that kills thousands of people annually

So? Through out history religions have slaughtered thousands of innocent people because they did something their holy book said is wrong or a voice in their head told them to kill them. The Jews invaded Canaan and destroyed cities and enslaved hundreds of thousands of people because god told them to. Church burned hundreds of "witches" and there was a 200 year period where the church waged wars with the muslims/jews/whoever they could get their hands on.

You can't tell me Islam is the only religion that has/will/does murder thousands of people annually.

[m@tty]

Religion should be dynamic, changing as people change.
Judaism and Christianity, although once supporting the death penalty, no longer do (although it could be argued that Judaism still does, but to a lesser extent). Islam must change as well, as many of the things it supports and encourages are no longer considered OK. Banning the burqa is one step forward to a better future for Islam.

Christians never supported the death penalty. Yes, people who called themselves Christians did, but a true Christian cannot condone such practices. ("Love thy neighbour") Also, as Yitzi_K pointed out, God is "the same yesterday, today and forever". So why should his church change to accommodate society.

[Cthulhu]

The bible says gay people should be put to death and yet modern society says that we should be tolerant of them. Well shit. What does the church do then? I'm not sure killing someone because they were told to by a 2000+ year old book is a good defense in court.

[TrueLight]

this discussion has gone from burqa banning to which religion is the best...

seriously why don't you all leave each religion to its own merit. noone needs to prove which religious does what when or how good it is

[Yitzi_K]

I know there have been killings in the name of God by "Christians" in the last century, thought they were really more a cult by that stage. I know not of Judaism. But really I only know what the media tells me... I haven't done any research or anything... And yes, I have heard of a LOT more about Islam... I hear heaps of crap about Islam..

And therein lies my point. There are a myriad problems with Islam. The forcing of women to wear a veil is but one of them. If you're going to start cracking down on Islamic practices, where do you stop?

There are a myriad of problems with all religions. Why don't we just get rid of them all?

Because Islam is the only one that kills thousands of people annually

So? Through out history religions have slaughtered thousands of innocent people because they did something their holy book said is wrong or a voice in their head told them to kill them. The Jews invaded Canaan and destroyed cities and enslaved hundreds of thousands of people because god told them to. Church burned hundreds of "witches" and there was a 200 year period where the church waged wars with the muslims/jews/whoever they could get their hands on.

You can't tell me Islam is the only religion that has/will/does murder thousands of people annually.

True, in the past they've all done their fair share of killing, but right now, one religion kinda has a monopoly on that sort of thing.

[fady_22]

See, there is a difference between religion and faith (well to me anyway). Yes, one's faith should not change, but one's religion (the institution to which they belong) should be dynamic as I said. Indeed, it is continually changing. Yitzi_k, you cannot tell me that Judaism has not changed at all throughout the years.

[Yitzi_K]

See, there is a difference between religion and faith (well to me anyway). Yes, one's faith should not change, but one's religion (the institution to which they belong) should be dynamic as I said. Indeed, it is continually changing. Yitzi_k, you cannot tell me that Judaism has not changed at all throughout the years.

Well it has and it hasn't... clearly the application of the law has to be moulded to fit modern advancements (there were no cars in the time of the Bible) but the laws themselves, and the reasons for those laws, can and will never change, no matter what the views of society are.

[fady_22]

See, there is a difference between religion and faith (well to me anyway). Yes, one's faith should not change, but one's religion (the institution to which they belong) should be dynamic as I said. Indeed, it is continually changing. Yitzi_k, you cannot tell me that Judaism has not changed at all throughout the years.

Well it has and it hasn't... clearly the application of the law has to be moulded to fit modern advancements (there were no cars in the time of the Bible) but the laws themselves, and the reasons for those laws, can and will never change, no matter what the views of society are.

The practices of each religion should, and have, changed.
Take for example Protestantism or even Reform Judaism. There is a change in practices and beliefs of these denominations or branches from each respective religion. Even catholicism has changed. As little of 50-60 years ago, Catholicism was very different than it is now. If they had not changed, the may not have survived through to the present day-- this is what I mean about being dynamic.

Islam, however seems resistant to change. I'm not saying they should change their beliefs entirely, but should be "dynamic" by giving women more freedom, which women today should receive.

[Yitzi_K]

See, there is a difference between religion and faith (well to me anyway). Yes, one's faith should not change, but one's religion (the institution to which they belong) should be dynamic as I said. Indeed, it is continually changing. Yitzi_k, you cannot tell me that Judaism has not changed at all throughout the years.

Well it has and it hasn't... clearly the application of the law has to be moulded to fit modern advancements (there were no cars in the time of the Bible) but the laws themselves, and the reasons for those laws, can and will never change, no matter what the views of society are.

The practices of each religion should, and have, changed.
Take for example Protestantism or even Reform Judaism. There is a change in practices and beliefs of these denominations or branches from each respective religion. Even catholicism has changed. As little of 50-60 years ago, Catholicism was very different than it is now. If they had not changed, the may not have survived through to the present day-- this is what I mean about being dynamic.

Islam, however seems resistant to change. I'm not saying they should change their beliefs entirely, but should be "dynamic" by giving women more freedom, which women today should receive.

Reform Judaism isn't Judaism isn't Judaism. It's a 'we'll do the nice cultural bits and forget everything else' approach. Religious (by which I mean Orthodox) Jews still abide by the exact same set of laws as they did 3000 years ago. Those laws can never change (in a way, not even G-d Himself could change them.) The eternal word of G-d does not depend on the whims and fancies of ever-changing society.

[fady_22]

See, there is a difference between religion and faith (well to me anyway). Yes, one's faith should not change, but one's religion (the institution to which they belong) should be dynamic as I said. Indeed, it is continually changing. Yitzi_k, you cannot tell me that Judaism has not changed at all throughout the years.

Well it has and it hasn't... clearly the application of the law has to be moulded to fit modern advancements (there were no cars in the time of the Bible) but the laws themselves, and the reasons for those laws, can and will never change, no matter what the views of society are.

The practices of each religion should, and have, changed.
Take for example Protestantism or even Reform Judaism. There is a change in practices and beliefs of these denominations or branches from each respective religion. Even catholicism has changed. As little of 50-60 years ago, Catholicism was very different than it is now. If they had not changed, the may not have survived through to the present day-- this is what I mean about being dynamic.

Islam, however seems resistant to change. I'm not saying they should change their beliefs entirely, but should be "dynamic" by giving women more freedom, which women today should receive.

Reform Judaism isn't Judaism isn't Judaism. It's a 'we'll do the nice cultural bits and forget everything else' approach. Religious (by which I mean Orthodox) Jews still abide by the exact same set of laws as they did 3000 years ago. Those laws can never change (in a way, not even G-d Himself could change them.) The eternal word of G-d does not depend on the whims and fancies of ever-changing society.

I could say the same about Protestantism.

There seems to be confusion; I am not saying that we should change any belief (laws are not beliefs), but rather change practices (such as wearing the burqa) to align with what is right in the eyes of people today.

Again, the word of God, one's faith, should not change. It is the practices that need changing. Wearing the burqa, in the context of this topic, is not a law anyway. It's a practice stemming from what is written in the Quran.