Should voting be compulsory? [offtopic split from Gillard/Abbott Poll]

[/0]

voting shouldn't be compulsory :/

[iffets12345]

voting shouldn't be compulsory :/

+1!

[EvangelionZeta]

voting shouldn't be compulsory :/

Definitely agreed.

[Glockmeister]

Definitely disagreed.

[stonecold]

Definitely disagreed.

Yep, it's practically the only obligation we have as citizens.  Get over it.

[iffets12345]

Definitely disagreed.

Yep, it's practically the only obligation we have as citizens.  Get over it.

Yea, and I am not saying having this obligation as a citizen is a bad thing. The bad thing is that you are forcing people who don't care or are not educated enough to make a thoughtful decision. Whilst you may be smart enough to figure things out for yourself, like I said before, people are just swayed by others or the media. Voting should be free, but don't make people who don't want to, do it because they jeopardise the whole meaning of the election.

Look at the mining thing. Whilst many like Mao have logical arguments against it, most just see the advertisement, tap into the typical "government out to get us" mentality and think "BAD RUDD BAD RUDD"

[Glockmeister]

Definitely disagreed.

Yep, it's practically the only obligation we have as citizens.  Get over it.

Yea, and I am not saying having this obligation as a citizen is a bad thing. The bad thing is that you are forcing people who don't care or are not educated enough to make a thoughtful decision. Whilst you may be smart enough to figure things out for yourself, like I said before, people are just swayed by others or the media. Voting should be free, but don't make people who don't want to, do it because they jeopardise the whole meaning of the election.

Look at the mining thing. Whilst many like Mao have logical arguments against it, most just see the advertisement, tap into the typical "government out to get us" mentality and think "BAD RUDD BAD RUDD"

The US doesn't have compulsory voting and we ended up with George W. Bush

[iffets12345]

And now, Barrack Obama.

[EvangelionZeta]

It's also kind of counter-intuitive: the reason we have the right to vote is because we want the right to make a decision about who leads us.  When we FORCE people to vote, we're effectively trying to promote their freedom by limiting their freedom...

The US doesn't have compulsory voting and we ended up with George W. Bush

Irrelevant.  You're committing post hoc ergo propter hoc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc).

[slothpomba]

Disagree.

I think we should have compulsory voting.

In the USA some people don't vote, so you get the people who feel strongly voting and the regular apathetic joe's not voting. So then you get the gun nuts voting or the environmentalist or every other little special interest group with an agenda and then the politicians cater to them.

I'm not saying stuff like that doesn't go on here but since everyone here votes (they should anyway) the politicians go for a more central appeal and not focus as heavily on the special interest groups.

What I'm trying to get at really is, that some segments of society would vote more than others. Compulsory voting gives a roughly more average representation of what the people want.

Anyway, fundamentally that's what i believe democracy is, the will of the body of people which comprise a state. You cant suddenly say these people shouldn't vote because they are too stupid or something like that. I agree democracy might not produce the best candidate if you have uninformed people voting but that's the nature of the thing and we have to put up with it.


It also has its flaws too i agree.
Where i live in the west, this area is very working class and not very rich.
It's a labour strong hold because of most of the people who go out and who *have* to cast a vote, vote labour by default.



Edit:

Irrelevant.  You're committing post hoc ergo propter hoc

Not everyone knows how to construct a proper  philosophically logical argument. Just putting it out there

[iffets12345]

Disagree.

I think we should have compulsory voting.

In the USA some people don't vote, so you get the people who feel strongly voting and the regular apathetic joe's not voting. So then you get the gun nuts voting or the environmentalist or every other little special interest group with an agenda and then the politicians cater to them.

I can sympathise with this- our literature teacher said this too when I discussed it with her. But you're not an gun nuts or an environmentalist and you are voting. There are sensible people out there. Once again with Barrack Obama- hes lobbying for health care, that's an average joe thing. I think everyone SHOULD vote, but the small amount of people who really have no will shouldn't be forced into it.

 

Anyway, fundamentally that's what i believe democracy is, the will of the body of people which comprise a state. You cant suddenly say these people shouldn't vote because they are too stupid or something like that. I agree democracy might not produce the best candidate if you have uninformed people voting but that's the nature of the thing and we have to put up with it.

"thats the nature of the thing?" If people said that about communism and the Berlin Wall we might as well be doomed.
And, having the will of a body of people who may not necessarily understand the implications of what they do is certainly a bad thing. Look at 1984. People support big brother, people do not understand the oppression that entails.

[EvangelionZeta]

Irrelevant.  You're committing post hoc ergo propter hoc

Not everyone knows how to construct a proper  philosophically logical argument. Just putting it out there

The logic isn't actually that advanced - it's basically the equivalent of saying "just because y is present after x has occurred doesn't mean that x has caused y to happen".  I'm just pointing out that you've left a gap in your reasoning, anyhow.  :p

[slothpomba]

I am no a gun nut and there are sensible people out there. That doesn't mean there aren't non sensible people either. Doesn't really refute my argument but i can see where you're going. Most of society aren't heavily involved in special interests or whatever. Those people who don't vote though will largely come from general common society rather than the special interest groups.

Seen family firsts policies and views, not to slander them cause they're on the opposite side of where i lie on the spectrum but man with views like that they don't need anymore votes.

That's what democracy is though. Giving the vote to everyone it doesn't matter if they're idiots. It's not a fantastic system but its the best one i reckon we have. Compulsory voting would also get everyone up to vote, the poor and minorities which wouldn't necessarily vote.

It would also stop minorities or friends voting in friends. Not so much on a federal scale but on a local scale. My council (the very corrupt brimbank council which got fired) is peppered with people from certain minorities and i believe people belonging to that certain minority voted them in for the fact that they were also a member of that minority. It would be a lot more like that if not everyone voted.

We'll anyway i think we both sort of agree anyway

just because y is present after x has occurred doesn't mean that x has caused y to happen".  I'm just pointing out that you've left a gap in your reasoning, anyhow.  :p

Wasn't me you said it in response to but ok..

It also has its flaws too i agree.
Where i live in the west, this area is very working class and not very rich.
It's a labour strong hold because of most of the people who go out and who *have* to cast a vote, vote labour by default.

I dont think any political thing we humans can come up with can be totally flawless but in this instance i think having compulsory voting is better than not having compulsory voting.

[iffets12345]

I am no a gun nut and there are sensible people out there. That doesn't mean there aren't non sensible people either. Doesn't really refute my argument but i can see where you're going. Most of society aren't heavily involved in special interests or whatever. Those people who don't vote though will largely come from general common society rather than the special interest groups.

Seen family firsts policies and views, not to slander them cause they're on the opposite side of where i lie on the spectrum but man with views like that they don't need anymore votes.

That's what democracy is though. Giving the vote to everyone it doesn't matter if they're idiots. It's not a fantastic system but its the best one i reckon we have. Compulsory voting would also get everyone up to vote, the poor and minorities which wouldn't necessarily vote.

It would also stop minorities or friends voting in friends. Not so much on a federal scale but on a local scale. My council (the very corrupt brimbank council which got fired) is peppered with people from certain minorities and i believe people belonging to that certain minority voted them in for the fact that they were also a member of that minority. It would be a lot more like that if not everyone voted.

We'll anyway i think we both sort of agree anyway

just because y is present after x has occurred doesn't mean that x has caused y to happen".  I'm just pointing out that you've left a gap in your reasoning, anyhow.  :p

Wasn't me you said it in response to but ok..

It also has its flaws too i agree.
Where i live in the west, this area is very working class and not very rich.
It's a labour strong hold because of most of the people who go out and who *have* to cast a vote, vote labour by default.

Yes, we agree somewhat .
I had the same discussion with someone else, and we just ended up saying "the world is stuffed."

[slothpomba]

today tonight and a current affair

I just want to express my particular distaste for these shows. The journalism is so bad it isnt funny. Seriously guys, world news on SBS is so much better. Its pretty much the only news i regularly watch.

Something i posted awhile back:

Very poor, horrible, detestable low class journalism - Just to grab viewers. Half the time they use scare tactics "How you will die in your bed tonight" "Top 10 common household poisons" "Godzilla - is he back?" ect.

Not really slogging off the average joe or anything but you can kind of tell the market they aim for. They don't exactly aim for your college professors. They're stories dont really matter anyway (they just totally ignore the rest of the world :/), Example:

SBS: The war in Gaza
Today Tonight: Top 5 Bikini Waxers

SBS:Anarchists Riot In Greece
Current Afairs: Local Man Discovers Jesus In His Morning Pancake

SBS: Cancer Breakthrough Reached
Today Tonight: Underpants 'curing' cellulite

You can see where im going with this right, the only news i watch is SBS World News & I read the age from time to time.