Are we reading things into novels the authors themselves never intended?

[lexitu]

This is one of the reasons I'm dropping Lit in favour of English. If EngLang was offered at my school, I would definitely take it. Doing well in VCE English/Literature comes down to agreeing with your teacher's opinions in SACs, and BSing your way through the exam.

Your teacher must suck if you have to agree with them. Your opinion just needs to be credible.
And definitely not BSing your way through the exam! English teachers generally have a good bullshit detector.

[Winter]

^I agree

As long as your opinion is well justified and supported by textual evidence, I don't think the teacher can mark you down for that. I don't think that teacher is even qualified to teach Literature if he/she can't be open to new interpretations. Plus, aren't essays cross-marked so your interpretation could align with another teacher?

[jane1234]

+1 to this whole thread!
I did unit 1 Lit, and hated it the whole time because we spent the entire lesson dissecting one sentence and getting 5 hidden meanings out of it!

[Spreadbury]

I loved unit 3/4 Lit, was fun. My teacher asked for our interpretations as a class and pointed us towards certain interpretations instead of saying "this is what it is".

While a teacher shouldn't mark you down for not agreeing with them, that's not to say they can't- albeit unethically. Agreeing with them in SACs is of course a safer option, because if you can present it properly it'll probably show them that you have a good understanding of their view, which they most likely believe is right. And not all schools cross-mark SACs: my school only had one lit teacher.

I have to go back on when I considered lit as bullshitting; I don't see it to be much different from a text response in english. You're drawing meaning from the text and analyse it and present a view, and state what the author was trying to achieve. I think it's just because you have more freedom in literature.

[lexitu]

I loved unit 3/4 Lit, was fun. My teacher asked for our interpretations as a class and pointed us towards certain interpretations instead of saying "this is what it is".

While a teacher shouldn't mark you down for not agreeing with them, that's not to say they can't- albeit unethically. Agreeing with them in SACs is of course a safer option, because if you can present it properly it'll probably show them that you have a good understanding of their view, which they most likely believe is right. And not all schools cross-mark SACs: my school only had one lit teacher.

I have to go back on when I considered lit as bullshitting; I don't see it to be much different from a text response in english. You're drawing meaning from the text and analyse it and present a view, and state what the author was trying to achieve. I think it's just because you have more freedom in literature.

But it's not necessarily safer if you don't hold that view because you might find it harder to present something that doesn't resound with you. Explaining something is usually easier if you believe it and fully comprehend it.

It's not even about presenting a "right" view - the view could be wrong (and the author could confirm this), but if it is reasonable and supported with significant textual evidence then it is okay. All of the English studies are much about exploring different interpretations of language.

Anyone that receives an unfair marking because they disagree with their teacher should challenge them. and not capitulate to a teacher that is not marking professionally.

[MuggedByReality]

   A past member, who was similar to Chavi (and possibly went to his school), reckoned he got his 50 in English though eloquent bullshitting.

[Spreadbury]

But it's not necessarily safer if you don't hold that view because you might find it harder to present something that doesn't resound with you. Explaining something is usually easier if you believe it and fully comprehend it.

It's not even about presenting a "right" view - the view could be wrong (and the author could confirm this), but if it is reasonable and supported with significant textual evidence then it is okay. All of the English studies are much about exploring different interpretations of language.

Anyone that receives an unfair marking because they disagree with their teacher should challenge them. and not capitulate to a teacher that is not marking professionally.

It could be unintentional bias. Also, when you get your mark back, your teacher wouldn't likely tell you "your ideas weren't the same as mine which is why I marked you down" and so it may be your expression, ideas only half formed or they may have missed the point.

   A past member, who was similar to Chavi (and possibly went to his school), reckoned he got his 50 in English though eloquent bullshitting.

Plausible, but of course he could just be saying that.

[MuggedByReality]

     Possible; humph revelled in self-deprecation regarding his English abilities, but was good enough to turn out [url=http://vce.atarnotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,6577.msg79566.html#msg79566]this quite decent essay

[lexitu]

@ Spreadbury - Yes but they might say something like "Here, I'm not sure this is what (author) intended," or in some other way they'll intimate that you weren't aligning to their interpretation and therefore they penalised you. Also, do you see what I'm saying in my first point that "it's not necessarily safer if you don't hold that view because you might find it harder to present something that doesn't resound with you. Explaining something is usually easier if you believe it and fully comprehend it."

[Spreadbury]

@ Spreadbury - Yes but they might say something like "Here, I'm not sure this is what (author) intended," or in some other way they'll intimate that you weren't aligning to their interpretation and therefore they penalised you. Also, do you see what I'm saying in my first point that "it's not necessarily safer if you don't hold that view because you might find it harder to present something that doesn't resound with you. Explaining something is usually easier if you believe it and fully comprehend it."

Yes I agree with that completely. But just because it isn't your interpretation doesn't mean that it's not comprehended, and you can't fluently express the point. Also, if you don't accept your teachers view, then you're being as narrow-minded as the teacher that marked you down.

[lexitu]

Alright cool, I agree with you too in that just because it's not your interpretation doesn't mean that it's not comprehendible to you. What I meant was more that one way of thinking might be more vivid for a student because of their experiences in life and their different worldview that may lead to a more enthusiastic discussion if it is their own interpretation.

[Eriny]

I remember in year 12 English I deliberately argued something against the teacher's view and still got a high mark for it. It's really about how you can draw from evidence to argue something, most English questions are deliberately phrased so that you can agree or disagree with the statement, which involves teasing out certain complexities and subtleties in the text.

[ninwa]

My teacher liked it when his students went against what he taught in class. Sometimes after a SAC he would even say "someone wrote this on their SAC and it was an excellent interpretation, I'm not always right".

He was the most awesome teacher I've ever had. <3

[sam99]

My mom has enough degrees in literature to fill a room-(3 masters lit and a doc in linguistics)- and she said to me that in lit you can argue any point as long as you can provide the evidence- and more than one piece. She said you can eloquently BS only if the author is dead and buried- try not to do it with people who are still living. With Shakespeare and Dickens you can BS but it must sound damn good and you can quote any critic that supports what you say- although any out there theory is not a good idea as most angles on these have been throughly exhausted by critics and any unknown critics will be spotted a mile away- especially of you have a really young teacher (who can google it and find out- most old teachers are real googlers yet).

Just my 2 cents anyway...

[sam99]

Ninwa your teacher is the ' GR8 type' -rare species because most can't stand to be seen as wrong..