Login

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

September 10, 2025, 01:27:11 am

Author Topic: The Football (Association) Thread  (Read 315935 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Reus

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Respect: +135
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1185 on: August 10, 2015, 07:28:29 pm »
0
We are lacking creativity. i  think hazard should start playing through the middle he created a few chances when he floated around the middle .  i also think willian should of been subbed off for begovic instead of oscar. Having said that i think Begovic will do find holding it down this week against city.
Hazard plays amazing as a winger, I would not change that at all. Oscar was amazing and Willian wasn't too bad, I personally would have taken Fabregas off - but I can see the defensive ability he would offer as compared to having Oscar on (since we has 10 men at like the 52nd minute). I would love to see a 4-3-3 against City. Begovic showed his quality against Swansea, have full faith in him.

Man Utd were lucky to get away with 3 points against the Spuds and having Arsenal lose, we can gain some control if we beat City.
2015: Bachelor of Science & Bachelor of Global Studies @ Monash University

MJRomeo81

  • Part of the furniture
  • *****
  • Posts: 1231
  • Princeps
  • Respect: +167
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1186 on: September 18, 2015, 03:53:33 pm »
0
Another embarrassing matchday for the English clubs. No surprise to me really since the EPL is incredibly poor in terms of quality football.

So what are the excuses this time?

The Christmas break argument doesn't apply here, and even then it's a fallacy since they play the same amout of games everywhere. La Liga, for example, just plays mores games in February and March when they pack the schedule heavily with the 2-legged Copa del Rey matches.

"Bottom of the EPL is (much) stronger than the bottom half of any other league". Do you really think Barca and Real would not be beating Sunderland by 5-6 goals? The reason you don't see more blowouts in the EPL is that the top 2 teams just aren't all that good. The EPL is just average top to bottom and that's why it is "so competitive". The league has no great teams -  just a bunch of mediocre clubs. The EPL's marketers are amazing. Financially and commercially, it is by far the strongest top to bottom, but in terms of quality in a sporting sense? No way, it just isn't...the vast majority of statistical information we can use to compare leagues to each other shows this. Head-to-head, success in mutual competitions, points dropped to teams lower in the table, etc. The propaganda has ingrained this false idea of the EPL being the best league but the data is there to suggest otherwise. The EPL suffers from delusions of grandeur.

With all that TV cash being splashed around, why do clubs like Tottenham need to be competitive? They aren't getting relegated anytime soon so the TV cash will always be there. There is no urgency from Levy to get his boys into the CL. Whereas in Italy, heads will roll via the mafioso if clubs like Fiorentina and Sampdoria keep missing out on the CL millions every year. The celebration of mediocrity in PL is hilarious. Torino and Napoli are good enough to beat teams like Tottenham and Liverpool. Teams like West Ham and Southampton are already out of Europa. La Liga teams with their unequal distribution of money are still maintaining a level far beyond PL.


All the talk of PL being so competitive... Man City have already opened up a 5 pt gap with its nearest title rivals. Chelsea and City are the only real candidates and have been so for the last 5 seasons. English football is faster because they continuously hoof and puff instead of playing with brains and skills. Just like last season when Chelsea won it by a mile. There is more competition in La Liga and Serie A (Serie A is the most competitive league in the world this season).


I think the real problem in England is the stockpiling of paper talent. When you look at a lot of the EPL teams in the lower half of the table, you see that they have quality players that have done well in other leagues. Then, why don't they perform in England? It's because they know their spot is guaranteed and since many of them are foreign, they don't have any emotional connection to the club so they'll just show up for the FAT paycheck and hope they don't embarrass themselves. That's why it's puzzling when people say EPL is best because it has top to bottom talent. Talent is not enough in a team game. It even happens to the top teams-- look at United. More money and better players (on paper) than PSV but when the game got tough, most of them disappeared. They don't have the passion. However, in Spain, Germany and Italy, teams don't have much $$$. For this reason, they rely more on their youth teams/scouting. When you have players coming in through the ranks, they'll either go on to fight for the jersey or they'll be sold for a profit since they weren't bought. Also, since teams outside England rely less on talent and more on teamwork, they play much more compactly and technically.


Furthermore, tactically the EPL clubs are absolutely shocking. There is little or no emphasis on tactics in the PL. Most clubs invest in speedy wingers and are forced into that double pivot formation (the 4-2-3-1 is so hot right now on the island, but it's useless without a true ball winner and regista - See AC Milano circa 2007 with Gattuso and Pirlo as the deep mids).The league has evolved to nothing but counter attacks back and forth. PL is like the NBA. Clubs are extremely loose tactically, worse defensively, and the transfer focus of nearly every club seems to be exclusivly on pace. Clubs combat opponent pace with more pace, and are often forced to rely on a moment of individual brilliance (Ned Zelic) to win matches in Europe. Juve vs City is the perfect example of how to defend a PL side. Slow them down and stifle their attack with a rigid shape. Then, after frustrating them for 60 odd minutes, pounce on the single mental mistake they make and score. German clubs are built on size and strength. Spanish clubs boast high technical ability. Us Italians (genetically smaller) have historically drilled tactics and defense as a unit. This is why when English clubs come up against sides that play team defense, and are more tactically organised, they don't stand a chance. And tactically organised != parking the bus.


There's more to football than guts and stamina. You watch the "top" teams-- City, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal-- and only Arsenal seem to want to play football. United try to implement passing football but still revert to Fellaini (FELLAINI!!!!) as a back up #9... Chelsea are so pragmatic and defensive and are two different teams for most games. In their 4-2-3-1 formation, one team is the 4-2 and the other team is the 3-1. They are not compact or disciplined at all. This isn't just happening this year (last two years they've been eliminated by Atletico/PSG due to those other teams' players sacrificing themselves for the cause. Arsenal are beautiful to watch but awful defending counters. You watch them against West Ham earlier this year or Zagreb yesterday or even Monaco last year and you can see how they allocate so many players upfront and are naked at the back half the time.)


Arsenal and City are both massively naive tactically. The amount of space City gave to Barcelona last year was stunning- there were 20/30 yards between defense and midfield at times. Likewise for Arsenal against Monaco. It was embarrassing how wide open Arsenal were at the back. Compare those two teams to Allegri's Juventus. The midfielders and forwards never leave any space open even for a second, the space between the defenders and midfielders is always very well calculated, and whenever someone ends up in a bad position, another player quickly rushes to cover his zone to ensure there are no open passing lanes or areas for opponents to run into freely.Its well-organized, practiced play. By contrast, Arsenal and Chelsea seem to have no tactical ideas except to attack with 4 players and try to command the midfield with 2. It's very inflexible and easy to react to. In Italy the soccer is, was and always will be a chess game not kick and chase.

 
Anyone who watches football can see these faults. It's not that EPL is awful, it's not. It's that their teams and culture has lagged behind the continent due to arrogance/economic conditions. Blame a lot of the English media and commentators as well who always talk about the Premier League as it were some kind of measuring stick for performance or success. I mean Andy Gray once asked if Messi could play on a cold rainy night in Stoke. Are you kidding me???
Currently working in the IT Industry as an Oracle DBA (State Government)

Murphy was an optimist

Bachelor of Information Technology @ La Trobe (Melbourne) - Completed 2014
WAM: 91.96
The key, the whole key, and nothing but the key, so help me Codd.

Subjects I tutored during my time at LTU:
CSE2DBF (Database Fundamentals)
CSE1IS (Information Systems)
CSE2DES (System Design Engineering)

Quote
“If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend 55 minutes defining the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions.”
― Albert Einstein

Reus

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Respect: +135
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1187 on: September 19, 2015, 08:06:41 pm »
0
Another embarrassing match day for the English clubs? This is the first time 3 English teams have lost during the opening round of the group stages…

Chelsea and City are the only real candidates and have been so for the last 5 seasons? You left out Manchester United who won it twice in the so called 5 seasons that have been Chelsea and City dominated. Oh and Liverpool coming a close second in 2013/14. Not to mention having no consecutive winners as compared to Bayern’s 3 years in a row Bundesliga win, PSG for the past 3 League 1’s, Juve for the past 4 Serie A’s.

There is more competition in La Liga and Serie A? Sorry I remember Juve winning the league by 17 points last season (more than Chelsea's 13) and hasn't Juve won Serie A for the past 4 years in a row? La Liga? For the last decade La Liga, excluding Atleti's 2013/14 win, have been attained by Real Madrid and Barcelona. Much competition.

In Spain, Germany and Italy, teams don't have much $$$? You're forgetting that Madrid is the richest club in the world. But you're definitely right with the youth upbringing in those leagues compared to the English. Most of Chelsea’s youth are on loan despite winning the youth EPL in a row – it’s a flaw that burdening the English National Team for sure. But I think players like Kane, Sterling and Delph can turn that around in the near future.

Tactically, sure the EPL is more compact and defensive but that's how a manager would approach a game where he does not have 99% certainty of winning. There's a difference when I go to play against Liverpool and then Torino. Let us be honest. Would you play a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3? The dynamic of the game has altered so considerably that a 1-0 win is all you need, 3 points on the board and move on to the next game. I don't see how you can compare Wenger's philosophy vs Mourinho's when Wenger has been at the club for 18 years compared to Mourinho's two (second spell of course). Sure Chelsea didn't play healthy and their discipline was all over the place vs PSG and Atletico (at least they made it further than Arsenal) but what do you expect when the team chemistry is relatively new and the manager is yet settling in? It's weird though, Mourinho just achieved the EPL title and league cup, but that's none of my business, Wenger.

Wait Chelsea park the bus? Sorry but we scored 73 last season, one more than Juve and conceded more. Going by paper, Juve parked the bus.

I mean some of what you've mentioned isn't incorrect, like EPL's marketers being amazing. Sure it is boasted about and the media doesn't help with that. However, the EPL is lumbered with having 5 top teams (if you consider Liverpool a top team - which you should). When top teams expect to play 60+ games in a season (all competitions) there must be a fair distribution of quality. Sure they don't perform as well in the Champions League compared to what their calibre should entice (don’t blame them since their league is harder to thrive in itself) but neither has the Serie A, Juve making the finals last season and that's it. At least an English team has won it in the last 5 years. I should also mention the English have had the most teams who have reached the CL final and are 2nd place with the most CL wins (level with Serie A) ever.

At the end of the day I would rather watch a game between Stoke City and Newcastle than Getafe and Valencia - its all entertainment.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 08:08:50 pm by Reus »
2015: Bachelor of Science & Bachelor of Global Studies @ Monash University

Hannibal

  • Victorian
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
  • Respect: +2
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1188 on: October 21, 2015, 08:56:05 pm »
0
Up the Gunners! What a ripper of a match.
2018-2020: UoM Comm

Biology24123

  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +1
  • School: Scopus
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1189 on: January 24, 2016, 02:43:04 am »
0
LIVERPOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pi

  • Honorary Moderator
  • Great Wonder of ATAR Notes
  • *******
  • Posts: 14348
  • Doctor.
  • Respect: +2376
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1190 on: January 24, 2016, 02:46:15 am »
0
Insane game!

Adequace

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
  • 7-1 never forget.
  • Respect: +12
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1191 on: January 24, 2016, 01:12:34 pm »
0
Good defending from both teams :p

Biology24123

  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +1
  • School: Scopus
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1192 on: January 24, 2016, 08:01:56 pm »
0
Insane game!

Can't believe how bad Liverpool and Man Utd have become

Reus

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Respect: +135
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1193 on: January 25, 2016, 01:08:54 pm »
0
Up the Chels!
2015: Bachelor of Science & Bachelor of Global Studies @ Monash University

pi

  • Honorary Moderator
  • Great Wonder of ATAR Notes
  • *******
  • Posts: 14348
  • Doctor.
  • Respect: +2376
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1194 on: January 25, 2016, 01:55:54 pm »
0
Can't believe how bad Liverpool and Man Utd have become

Hope LvG is given the boot soon, not a fan.

Biology24123

  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 536
  • Respect: +1
  • School: Scopus
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1195 on: January 25, 2016, 08:57:58 pm »
0
Up the Chels!

Honestly they can be in the top 7 very quickly if they go on a run

Cristiano

  • Forum Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Respect: +2
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1196 on: January 25, 2016, 09:25:25 pm »
0
Hope LvG is given the boot soon, not a fan.

I'd prefer Man Utd to keep up their form though ;) Manchester City to win the league!

Adequace

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
  • 7-1 never forget.
  • Respect: +12
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1197 on: January 25, 2016, 09:47:52 pm »
0
I'd prefer Man Utd to keep up their form though ;) Manchester City to win the league!
+1 I'd also prefer seeing United struggle, just because it's Manchester United. Anyway, I reckon Arsenal will win the league.

MJRomeo81

  • Part of the furniture
  • *****
  • Posts: 1231
  • Princeps
  • Respect: +167
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1198 on: January 26, 2016, 04:39:23 pm »
0
I reiterate - the quality of football in England this year is incredibly poor.

The EPL is a vacuum for innovation where the solution to all issues is to spend more money.

Juventus and Napoli would smack any team in the EPL. So would PSG, Bayern, Dortmund, Real, Barca and Atletico.
Currently working in the IT Industry as an Oracle DBA (State Government)

Murphy was an optimist

Bachelor of Information Technology @ La Trobe (Melbourne) - Completed 2014
WAM: 91.96
The key, the whole key, and nothing but the key, so help me Codd.

Subjects I tutored during my time at LTU:
CSE2DBF (Database Fundamentals)
CSE1IS (Information Systems)
CSE2DES (System Design Engineering)

Quote
“If I had an hour to solve a problem I'd spend 55 minutes defining the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions.”
― Albert Einstein

Reus

  • Victorian
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Respect: +135
Re: The Football (Association) Thread
« Reply #1199 on: January 26, 2016, 08:36:34 pm »
0
I reiterate - the quality of football in England this year is incredibly poor.

The EPL is a vacuum for innovation where the solution to all issues is to spend more money.

Juventus and Napoli would smack any team in the EPL. So would PSG, Bayern, Dortmund, Real, Barca and Atletico.
The Champions League will tell its own story.
2015: Bachelor of Science & Bachelor of Global Studies @ Monash University