So... carbon tax

[ninwa]

What d'you think?

...if you haven't heard anything about it you must have been living under a rock the past few weeks

[pi]

Unlike the Liberals, I don't see it as 'just another tax'. I am a firm believer in man-made climate change. Although individually, Australia's efforts will do little compared to larger emitters (USA, China, India, etc.), I think that if a country such as ours that has one of the highest emissions per capita takes a stance (through a carbon tax), then that can only be looked upon positively by other nations. Hopefully, some larger nations might consider to follow suit. Either way, it will help a little in the battle against climate change.

[Water]

Unlike the Liberals, I don't see it as 'just another tax'. I am a firm believer in man-made climate change. Although individually, Australia's efforts will do little compared to larger emitters (USA, China, India, etc.), I think that if a country such as ours that has one of the highest emissions per capita takes a stance (through a carbon tax), then that can only be looked upon positively by other nations. Hopefully, some larger nations might consider to follow suit. Either way, it will help a little in the battle against climate change.

You mean, our mining industries that produce all our emissions for us, not us. Lol.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[iNerd]

Unlike the Liberals, I don't see it as 'just another tax'. I am a firm believer in man-made climate change. Although individually, Australia's efforts will do little compared to larger emitters (USA, China, India, etc.), I think that if a country such as ours that has one of the highest emissions per capita takes a stance (through a carbon tax), then that can only be looked upon positively by other nations. Hopefully, some larger nations might consider to follow suit. Either way, it will help a little in the battle against climate change.

Uh where does it mention that the PM went against her election promise and denies it? What a pathetic person - a PM that can't stick to her word is not a PM at all.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[pi]

Uh where does it mention that the PM went against her election promise and denies it? What a pathetic person - a PM that can't stick to her word is not a PM at all.

Thats a bit cynical. And I think calling her a pathetic person is not called for. By your comment, 99% of politicians are 'pathetic people'. And taking that further, nearly everyone in the world has told a 'lie' and claimed they didn't say/do it, does that mean we are all 'pathetic people'?

I think as times change, decisions need to change. When she was campaigning, we were just post-GFC and people did not want to hear of any tax (people never want a new tax, but proposing it after such a period would have been stupid). As our economy has bettered over the last few months, I think this decision had to be made. WE have to show some leadership in this issue and WE should be proud that WE are making a difference.

If making a difference means back-tracking on a election promise that was made in harder times, then I commend her actions in this regard. I think its time that a politician stood up for the environment in a good way (not about stupid yellow bellied parrots and what-not) and in a way that they believe in and will be beneficial to the planet (even in a small way -it all counts), even if the population is against it.

Not all decisions can be popular and not all decisions should be popular. I don't believe in 'poll-pleasing-politics', it just gets nothing substantial done.

Just my slant on the issue.

[Souljette_93]

Unlike the Liberals, I don't see it as 'just another tax'. I am a firm believer in man-made climate change. Although individually, Australia's efforts will do little compared to larger emitters (USA, China, India, etc.), I think that if a country such as ours that has one of the highest emissions per capita takes a stance (through a carbon tax), then that can only be looked upon positively by other nations. Hopefully, some larger nations might consider to follow suit. Either way, it will help a little in the battle against climate change.

Uh where does it mention that the PM went against her election promise and denies it? What a pathetic person - a PM that can't stick to her word is not a PM at all.

Yeah but you also have to remember that Julia Gillard is under a minority government, and when she said that, I believe she assumed she would hold full government. (Maybe you might not see that as an excuse, but remember that the greens had also had part of this IIRC)

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[Eriny]

Unlike the Liberals, I don't see it as 'just another tax'. I am a firm believer in man-made climate change. Although individually, Australia's efforts will do little compared to larger emitters (USA, China, India, etc.), I think that if a country such as ours that has one of the highest emissions per capita takes a stance (through a carbon tax), then that can only be looked upon positively by other nations. Hopefully, some larger nations might consider to follow suit. Either way, it will help a little in the battle against climate change.

Uh where does it mention that the PM went against her election promise and denies it? What a pathetic person - a PM that can't stick to her word is not a PM at all.

You should be focused on whether or not the policy is good, not whether or not Julia Gillard happens to meet your arbitrary moral standards.

Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience

[chrisjb]

This tax is a good thing I reckon. It's not going to solve climate change (and no one expects it to) but it is a step in the right direction. Also, the tax isn't going to kill our economy. They have one in the EU and it has stimulated growth and jobs rather than reducing them. And (never start a sentence with and) the state of limbo that we're in now where electricity comanies don't know if there will be a carbon tax of not (thank you Mr Abbott) is one factor pushing up electricity prices. It's better to just get the thing over and done with that way companies can make the shift to whatever it is they plan on doing and we can all return to arguing about things we actualy understand.

[Water]

This tax is a good thing I reckon. It's not going to solve climate change (and no one expects it to) but it is a step in the right direction. Also, the tax isn't going to kill our economy. They have one in the EU and it has stimulated growth and jobs rather than reducing them. And (never start a sentence with and) the state of limbo that we're in now where electricity comanies don't know if there will be a carbon tax of not (thank you Mr Abbott) is one factor pushing up electricity prices. It's better to just get the thing over and done with that way companies can make the shift to whatever it is they plan on doing and we can all return to arguing about things we actualy understand.

I don't know why we should have the carbon tax. Think about it, we only contribute 1% of the world's total green house emission contrary to other developing or developed countries. We are a 1.3 trillion economy, contrary to America's 14 - 15 trillion and China's 5 trillion economy, so why are we undermining our own economy for the sake of green house emissions?

All America thinks about us is that we have kangaroos in our backyards. Not even Julia Gillard's visit to America was put in the headlines of American News. What makes us think that we will be in the global stage as leaders? Puh lease, time to get out of that dreamscape where Australia is a big leader and an influential country.

We are like Rice and our carbon tax won't change anything in the world. Even Kevin Rudd gave up , and he was passionate. Carbon Tax is just false hope, to appease an angry population who thinks that we can change something.

[Eriny]

1% is actually very high on a per capita basis.

[Water]

Stationary Energy*   196.0   35.8%   252.0   45.7%   287.4       52.3%
Industrial Processes   25.3   4.6%   27.4   5.0%   28.4                    5.2%
Agriculture   87.7   16.0%   95.5   17.3%   90.1                           16.4%


Stationary energy   Electricity production, petroleum refining, manufacture of solid fuels and other energy industries and the combustion of fuels used by manufacturing industries and construction.


Directly from the EPA.

Stationary Energy and other business related takes up 73.9% of our total emissions. It is not us (Australian citizens) who are emitting the majority of green house emissions.In fact, quite the opposite. But like I said before, it is the mining industries and etc... who harvest our natural resources, and they take up the bulk of our emissions. However it is also these mining industries that make up 10% of our GDP, why tax them something like carbon tax which will adversely have a negative effect on us. I'd rather have Kevin Rudd's super tax to generate even greater GDP as it will increase Australia's overall living standards with more Government money to invest back into the Australian population !

The 1% per capita basis is a skewered statistics. It is a biased statistics by environmentalists who try to make a point in Australia when they don't have one.

[Mao]

Gentlemen, may I bring your attention to this: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35693

[chrisjb]

This tax is a good thing I reckon. It's not going to solve climate change (and no one expects it to) but it is a step in the right direction. Also, the tax isn't going to kill our economy. They have one in the EU and it has stimulated growth and jobs rather than reducing them. And (never start a sentence with and) the state of limbo that we're in now where electricity comanies don't know if there will be a carbon tax of not (thank you Mr Abbott) is one factor pushing up electricity prices. It's better to just get the thing over and done with that way companies can make the shift to whatever it is they plan on doing and we can all return to arguing about things we actualy understand.

I don't know why we should have the carbon tax. Think about it, we only contribute 1% of the world's total green house emission contrary to other developing or developed countries. We are a 1.3 trillion economy, contrary to America's 14 - 15 trillion and China's 5 trillion economy, so why are we undermining our own economy for the sake of green house emissions?

but that's the thing... We're not undermining our economy. A carbon tax is going to do very little to prices, jobs, growth or anything else. The carbon trading model in the European Union created more jobs. A tax isn't always an evil. Read this:

"The experience in Europe is the drive to a low-carbon economy has created more jobs - I'm not aware of any jobs that have been lost as the result of a carbon price.

"It was easier and cheaper to reduce emissions than was initially estimated. The impact has not affected the economy adversely."

Before you bring up the point that domestic stability (demonstrated in EU model) is all well and good but a carbon tax would reduce our ability to export, look at the key markets that this would effect: Electricity, Petrol (and transportation), mining (a little bit)... Our only real export there is minerals. The other two we don't export and Agriculture (which we do) is exempt from the tax. All in all, our economy will be fine.

Also your idea that if we can't do much we shouldn't bother trying is somewhat alarming. Should a country with relatively few immigrants not be concerned with racism? Should a country with small millitary not bother with world peace? Should a country with a low poverty rate not be concerned about global poverty?
Why not just try the tax (which isn't actualy a very special or new invention) and see what happens?

All America thinks about us is that we have kangaroos in our backyards. Not even Julia Gillard's visit to America was put in the headlines of American News. What makes us think that we will be in the global stage as leaders? Puh lease, time to get out of that dreamscape where Australia is a big leader and an influential country.

Yes, and all that matters is what America thinks isn't it? Most Australians are aware that we're not that important when it comes to most things, but I don't think that isn't a good enough reason to give up.

Even Kevin Rudd gave up , and he was passionate. Carbon Tax is just false hope, to appease an angry population who thinks that we can change something.

Kevin Rudd was a good man who was let down by an uninformed public and an opposition party willing to exploit unrealistic fears. His passion wasn't extinguished nor was his tax a bad idea, it was just a shambles of beaurocracy.
Also, It's not a silver bullet and no one is saying that it is, but it is a step forward and a way to get the private sector to start thinking about carbon- a much more effective way of going about things than trying to negotiate a gridlocked parliament.

Gentlemen, may I bring your attention to this: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35693

Now there's a pipe dream for ya.

[Water]

but that's the thing... We're not undermining our economy. A carbon tax is going to do very little to prices, jobs, growth or anything else. The carbon trading model in the European Union created more jobs. A tax isn't always an evil. Read this:

The thing that separates "us" from Europe is that we are a large mining industry. Our carbon emission is "bound to happen" because it is a cost to to stimulate our economy.

 

"The experience in Europe is the drive to a low-carbon economy has created more jobs - I'm not aware of any jobs that have been lost as the result of a carbon price.

"It was easier and cheaper to reduce emissions than was initially estimated. The impact has not affected the economy adversely."

That is correct. However, carbon taxing in Australia's mining industry and electricity will surely pump up our prices. Companies want to keep their marginalized profits, so to maintain it, they will raise their products and blame it on the tax.

What has Carbon Tax Lead in Europe? Biomass, great stuff to tackle climate change where food prices will go up.

Kevin Rudd was a good man who was let down by an uninformed public and an opposition party willing to exploit unrealistic fears. His passion wasn't extinguished nor was his tax a bad idea, it was just a shambles of beaurocracy.
Also, It's not a silver bullet and no one is saying that it is, but it is a step forward and a way to get the private sector to start thinking about carbon- a much more effective way of going about things than trying to negotiate a gridlocked parliament

The Greenhouse Emissions has been a controversial and contentious issue since the Howard Government. Trust a nation of bogans to be able to understand the costs of CO2.






Like I said, Kevin's Rudd previous Super Tax is the best alternative. Through this, tax revenue received could be invested into Green Energy Technology and resold back to the Private Industry under forced regulation or fined under heavy penalty.


A Solution thats far better than Carbon Tax

[pi]

Gentlemen, may I bring your attention to this: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35693

On the note of technology, what happened to those artificial trees that trapped CO2?