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September 27, 2025, 12:04:07 am

Author Topic: Specialist Math scaling  (Read 64543 times)  Share 

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luken93

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2011, 07:17:03 pm »
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Take this as a grain of salt, as it is derived from reading and hearsay...

From what I can gather; scaling works on a principle of comparing the relative raw scores of all of the subjects every student within a subjects cohort (eg: spesh) undertakes, thus allowing them to come to a conclusion as to the difficulty of the subject (spesh).

For example, within Spesh they notice that the cohort of spesh is considered 'smart' as much of the students who get a 30+ raw in spesh get low-mid 40's in their other subjects. Hence it can be gathered that spesh must be 'difficult' and using modelling they can accurately determine this 'difficulty' from using each individual students data and hence scale the subject according.
(This is also as to the reason why scaling differs slightly each year, as the cohort is as a mean slightly differing in 'intelligence' each year)

For the 3 maths though, they never include the subjects the student undertook in year 11 (most often methods) to assist in this calculation of 'difficulty'; this is crucial as most specialist students go quite well in methods in year 11, and by not including this high score they are in a way decreasing the 'mean' intelligence of the spesh cohort.

Hence, since this 'mean intelligence' was slightly lower since not including methods, the scaling for spesh was scaling slightly lower than if they had included this methods score.
Thus now that they are including methods, it is predicted (using their modelling) that the 'mean intelligence' of the cohort will rise, hence leading to the subject appearing more difficult (the intelligence of the cohort suddenly rises but the average scores will be the same this year from the last) meaning that theoretically (and based from their modelling) the mean will now rise from 38 scaled, to 41 scaled.
Yep, sounds right to be.

In a 3 sentence summary (if you don't wanna read what sros has said so well :) ):

Basically;
 - They didn't take into account the kids who do Methods in Year 11 and then Spesh in Year 12
 - Because these kids are usually quite proficient in maths, the scaling/difficulty wasn't modelled correctly
 - Because of this, they are predicting (with quite a good degree of certainty by the sounds of it) that the scaling will rise by 3 for the mean score of 30, so that it will now rise from last years scaled score of 38 to a new scaled score of 41.

WOO HOO.

On a side note, I'd think this would have little effect on aggregate vs ATAR, it still is only a relatively small percentage of the year 12 cohort...
2010: Business Management [47]
2011: English [44]   |   Chemistry [45]  |   Methods [44]   |   Specialist [42]   |   MUEP Chemistry [5.0]   |   ATAR: 99.60
UMAT: 69 | 56 | 82 | = [69 / 98th Percentile]
2012: MBBS I @ Monash

monkeywantsabanana

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2011, 07:21:12 pm »
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This is confusing... Don't worry about the scaling, just do your best. (:

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tony3272

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2011, 07:27:47 pm »
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Haha if this is true then it will be awesome :P
2010 : Accounting
2011 : Methods (CAS) | Chemistry  | Physics  | English Language  | Specialist Maths

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luken93

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2011, 07:28:46 pm »
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http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/stats/2006-2007/2006_2007_Section_H.pdf

These are the scalings for the year that it went from 30 -> 41...
2010: Business Management [47]
2011: English [44]   |   Chemistry [45]  |   Methods [44]   |   Specialist [42]   |   MUEP Chemistry [5.0]   |   ATAR: 99.60
UMAT: 69 | 56 | 82 | = [69 / 98th Percentile]
2012: MBBS I @ Monash

jane1234

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2011, 07:36:52 pm »
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:O a 50 goes to 55!! :D

luffy

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2011, 07:37:03 pm »
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http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/stats/2006-2007/2006_2007_Section_H.pdf

These are the scalings for the year that it went from 30 -> 41...

I don't think that makes complete sense as a comparison. If the subject scaled mean increases by 3, you would expect the scaling at the higher end (i.e. 50 study scores) to be increased by a minimal amount. Last year a 50 went to 51.6. Hence, theoretically, with this subject mean increase of 3, the maximum scaling would be to 54.6 (it should be much lower than this though). However, in 2006, it went to 55. Thus, I don't think the scaling can be accurately predicted (for scores at both the higher and lower ends) as of yet, but we shall see.

Nonetheless, this news of scaling is exciting! It allows me to get a slightly lower study score on Eng Lang for the same ATAR :D Yay!!

luken93

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2011, 07:44:38 pm »
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http://www.vtac.edu.au/pdf/stats/2006-2007/2006_2007_Section_H.pdf

These are the scalings for the year that it went from 30 -> 41...

I don't think that makes complete sense as a comparison. If the subject scaled mean increases by 3, you would expect the scaling at the higher end (i.e. 50 study scores) to be increased by a minimal amount. Last year a 50 went to 51.6. Hence, theoretically, with this subject mean increase of 3, the maximum scaling would be to 54.6 (it should be much lower than this though). However, in 2006, it went to 55. Thus, I don't think the scaling can be accurately predicted (for scores at both the higher and lower ends) as of yet, but we shall see.

Nonetheless, this news of scaling is exciting! It allows me to get a slightly lower study score on Eng Lang for the same ATAR :D Yay!!
Yeah I know what you mean, I was just basing it on the fact that the mean and scaling were the same. Why did it go to 55 then though? And maybe it is 54.6 rounded up, let's hope :P
2010: Business Management [47]
2011: English [44]   |   Chemistry [45]  |   Methods [44]   |   Specialist [42]   |   MUEP Chemistry [5.0]   |   ATAR: 99.60
UMAT: 69 | 56 | 82 | = [69 / 98th Percentile]
2012: MBBS I @ Monash

Natters

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2011, 08:41:44 pm »
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as i said, im highly skeptical, but its nice new nonetheless :)
edit: lmfao at that imperative delete and ban call
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 08:46:46 pm by Natters »

Zebra

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 05:16:15 pm »
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/There will be transition arrangements for current Year 12
students who completed studies in Year 11 in 2010 and
which were scaled using the 2010 procedures. These
students will have their 2010 scores re-scaled using the
revised procedure and will receive the higher of the two
scaled scores for the calculation of their 2011 ATAR./ -vcaa

WOW.... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hopefully higher!!!!
2010:
Mathematical Methods CAS 3/4 [41->45.8]

2011:
English Second Language 3/4 [46->47.1], Chemistry 3/4 [42->45.6], Specialist Maths 3/4 [38->49.2], LOTE [33->40.9], Biology 3/4 [41->42]

aggregate: 195.9
2011 ATAR: 99.25

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homosapiens

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2011, 05:33:31 pm »
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read the article, but it wasn't clear to me whether the transition arrangements are just of maths subjects completed by 2011 students in 2010 or for all subjects?

Truck

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2011, 05:40:15 pm »
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Happy days.
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funkyducky

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2011, 06:09:28 pm »
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This is true. My class was informed by our spesh teacher today. A 30 will be scaled to around 41 since apparently they haven't been considering Year 11 MM 3/4 study scores when scaling.

So great news for us. :D

I was there when this happen and can confirm that, according to our spesh teacher, VCAA VTAC "forgot" to include 3/4 MM results from year 11 when scaling spesh for the past 4 years.
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REBORN

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2011, 06:10:50 pm »
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Scaling is determined by VTAC - not VCAA
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Zebra

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2011, 07:08:22 pm »
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This is true. My class was informed by our spesh teacher today. A 30 will be scaled to around 41 since apparently they haven't been considering Year 11 MM 3/4 study scores when scaling.

So great news for us. :D

I was there when this happen and can confirm that, according to our spesh teacher, VCAA VTAC "forgot" to include 3/4 MM results from year 11 when scaling spesh for the past 4 years.

it's so bizarre... how can they forget.... does that mean past students who took spesh ended up with an 'unfair' score?
2010:
Mathematical Methods CAS 3/4 [41->45.8]

2011:
English Second Language 3/4 [46->47.1], Chemistry 3/4 [42->45.6], Specialist Maths 3/4 [38->49.2], LOTE [33->40.9], Biology 3/4 [41->42]

aggregate: 195.9
2011 ATAR: 99.25

2012-2015: Bachelor of Pharmacy (Honours)

Jdog

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Re: Specialist Math scaling
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 07:10:47 pm »
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okay, I don't do spesh, but am concerned (as most non-speshers probably are)
does this mean spesh will once again scale up to 54-55?

if so, then the aggregate vs atar table will be fucked,

just a quick comparison, a 99.7 last year was a 99.5 in 2007