Occupy Wall Street

[Water]

The police asked the protesters to move. They didn't. What did you expect?
Although the 'bashing' of any citizen should not be tolerated, I'm sure the police wouldn't have 'bashed' this girl if she was not putting up resistance. I am not sure to what degree this person was 'bashed', hence it is in quotation marks.
If you show resistance to enforcers of any policy, there will be incidents where unintended injuries may occur. Common Sense.
To put it harshly, the protesters are , in effect, asking for it.

The protesters also previously said if they were asked to be vacated, they would do it peacefully...

And look have we here...

Protesters who piss in buckets in the middle of Melbourne.

Besides protesting, how about working hard like the 99% of Australians?

No pain, no gain.

[Eriny]

The police asked the protesters to move. They didn't. What did you expect?
Although the 'bashing' of any citizen should not be tolerated, I'm sure the police wouldn't have 'bashed' this girl if she was not putting up resistance. I am not sure to what degree this person was 'bashed', hence it is in quotation marks.
If you show resistance to enforcers of any policy, there will be incidents where unintended injuries may occur. Common Sense.
To put it harshly, the protesters are , in effect, asking for it.

The protesters also previously said if they were asked to be vacated, they would do it peacefully...

And look have we here...

Protesters who piss in buckets in the middle of Melbourne.

Besides protesting, how about working hard like the 99% of Australians?

No pain, no gain.

Yeah, because working hard addresses the inequalities in society.

Occupy Melbourne is interesting because I don't think Australia has the problems that the US does. Being poor in Australia means renting electronics and getting a few hundred dollars a fortnight, not like in the US where being poor means not having a roof over your head and working for $5 an hour. It still affects your life though, in the long-term poorer children (in Australia and elsewhere) tend to grow up with less education, less job security, more health problems, and a shorter life expectancy. I don't think Occupy Melbourne is really addressing these issues, and frankly you're right to point out how smelly it is. Nonetheless, I think there is an increased class consciousness in the world at the moment, and the stronger realisation that hard work doesn't necessarily get people in better positions (or indeed that people in good positions worked harder than others - though no doubt they would have worked hard at some point) and hopefully that will do some good.

[enwiabe]

I see no reason why the rich can't be super rich, provided that the poor have a standard of living commensurate with a very acceptable minimum standard.

Nobody should go hungry. Nobody should be homeless. Nobody should be without adequate healthcare. Nobody should be without an education (or opportunities to receive one).

In Australia, we have all of those things, so I agree with Eriny that Occupy Melbourne seems a bit ridiculous. Our system isn't perfect by any means, but it's pretty darn good.

Occupy Wall Street, however, that's been in the making for decades in America, and I'm glad it's finally happened. Too many people are suffering in the world's most powerful nation. It's an absolute joke.

[JellyDonut]

The fact that only WS has been singled out while the government has been left alone by OWS kinda shits me. Corporatism is not a one way street

[the sean]

Agree, as long as corporations keep donating to political parties and keep getting bailed out, people should really be protesting on Capitol Hill against the people they elected to best 'represent' them, not the rich's interests.

What shits me as well is people like 'Water' saying that protestors should be "working harder". The ONLY group whose incomes have grown over the past decade has been for the top 20% in Australia. And yes we are lucky to have Medicare etc. but trends are showing that in the coming years wealth and income will increasingly be concentrated for those in the 1%.

I don't have a solution (yet), some things I read suggest that it's Reserve banks and artificially low interest rates that cause inequality, others say it's income tax rate reduction. And 3 days away from the English exam I don't really have time to find a solution. But people shouldn't be dismissing the Occupy Australia movements simply because we are relatively better off than America, there are many injustices and problems in Australia that need urgent attention.

[appianway]

No society is perfect. But honest, Australians don't know how close we have it. You are NOT paying 55k per year to go to college in a culture where it is near impossible to get a decent job without a degree (and yes, prestige and name dropping matters a LOT here). You are NOT living in a country which has horrible welfare, where the rich protest majorly about any form of taxation. You are NOT living in a country where healthcare is privatized, and where something like 1/6 of people can't afford it. You are NOT living a country which was devastated by the financial crisis and which is in huge debt, whilst being heavily involved in a war on the other side of the world. The situation is completely, completely different.

[tram]

Agree, as long as corporations keep donating to political parties and keep getting bailed out, people should really be protesting on Capitol Hill against the people they elected to best 'represent' them, not the rich's interests.

What shits me as well is people like 'Water' saying that protestors should be "working harder". The ONLY group whose incomes have grown over the past decade has been for the top 20% in Australia. And yes we are lucky to have Medicare etc. but trends are showing that in the coming years wealth and income will increasingly be concentrated for those in the 1%.

I don't have a solution (yet), some things I read suggest that it's Reserve banks and artificially low interest rates that cause inequality, others say it's income tax rate reduction. And 3 days away from the English exam I don't really have time to find a solution. But people shouldn't be dismissing the Occupy Australia movements simply because we are relatively better off than America, there are many injustices and problems in Australia that need urgent attention.

Mate do you wanna quantify, explain or define what exactly what you mean by the "inequality" in Australia, in terms of income spread we're going pretty damn well considering the size, nature and position of our economy, there are are a multitude of standards in place that ensure if you get off your ass and actually try you'll have a roof over your head and three square meals, in terms of income inequality if we look at gini coefficient rankings we're ranked 25th in the world. America is ranked 93rd, that's behind india, china and iran, thats' why THEY'RE protesting, in terms of income spread, Australia's doing pretty good. I mean sure, there are people that make a s***load of money at the top, but ummm that's cos they work 20 hours days for fortnights at a time (no, that is not an exaggeration-i know people that literally do that), and frankly that not a life i would wish onto my mortal enemy, but it's their prerogative to work as hard as they want, and yeah they're compensated well for it, but they damn well earn it, is there a reason why making a lot of money (and making the economy go round while they're at it) is inherently bad?

Plus that's from a income side, in terms of services open to the public it's nice and cushy for Australians comparatively, but i think that's already been well established.

[selim31]

Agree, as long as corporations keep donating to political parties and keep getting bailed out, people should really be protesting on Capitol Hill against the people they elected to best 'represent' them, not the rich's interests.

What shits me as well is people like 'Water' saying that protestors should be "working harder". The ONLY group whose incomes have grown over the past decade has been for the top 20% in Australia. And yes we are lucky to have Medicare etc. but trends are showing that in the coming years wealth and income will increasingly be concentrated for those in the 1%.

I don't have a solution (yet), some things I read suggest that it's Reserve banks and artificially low interest rates that cause inequality, others say it's income tax rate reduction. And 3 days away from the English exam I don't really have time to find a solution. But people shouldn't be dismissing the Occupy Australia movements simply because we are relatively better off than America, there are many injustices and problems in Australia that need urgent attention.

But surely you support Unions donating to political parties, right? The government must work for everyone, including corporations. We live in a democracy after all.

[the sean]

Mate do you wanna quantify, explain or define what exactly what you mean by the "inequality" in Australia, in terms of income spread we're going pretty damn well considering the size, nature and position of our economy, there are are a multitude of standards in place that ensure if you get off your ass and actually try you'll have a roof over your head and three square meals, in terms of income inequality if we look at gini coefficient rankings we're ranked 25th in the world. America is ranked 93rd, that's behind india, china and iran, thats' why THEY'RE protesting, in terms of income spread, Australia's doing pretty good. I mean sure, there are people that make a s***load of money at the top, but ummm that's cos they work 20 hours days for fortnights at a time (no, that is not an exaggeration-i know people that literally do that), and frankly that not a life i would wish onto my mortal enemy, but it's their prerogative to work as hard as they want, and yeah they're compensated well for it, but they damn well earn it, is there a reason why making a lot of money (and making the economy go round while they're at it) is inherently bad?

Plus that's from a income side, in terms of services open to the public it's nice and cushy for Australians comparatively, but i think that's already been well established.

If you had read my post correctly you would see I do not have a problem with people making money, nor people growing their incomes. I have a problem however with rich getting richer whilst the poor are getting poorer. YES, we do have it pretty good right now, it would be insane to suggest otherwise. But with that being said, you cannot doubt either that inequality in Australia is increasing. Both in an income/wealth measure (growing GINI coefficient) and also in a political representation measure.

Of the many messages coming out of the Occupy movements, the message the resonates perhaps most with me is corporate influence in politics. Particularly the fact the a couple of mining execs can effectively remove a Prime Minister from office just because they do not want to pay more tax. 

In response to "quantify, explain or define" inequality in Australia, here it is:
"The share of household net worth owned by the richest 20 per cent of Australian households has risen from 58.6 per cent in 2003-04 to 62.2 per cent in 2009-10."
AND
"According to recently released Australian Bureau of Statistics data, the share of household disposable income accruing to the richest 20 per cent of Australians has increased from 37.8 per cent in 1994-95 to 40.2 per cent in 2009-10, while that of each of the four lowest ''quintiles'' (fifths) has fallen over the same period."

In just the past 6 years income has increased by almost 3% for the top 20%,  and more worringly, wealth in the top 20% has increased by almost 4%. Doesn't this worry you? What if the trend continues like this and in 30 years time the richest 20% own 80% of the wealth? It is certainly something to be worried about.

Like I said, I don't know how to fix it. But I do know that it's something to worry about.

But surely you support Unions donating to political parties, right? The government must work for everyone, including corporations. We live in a democracy after all.

I support a limit on donations if that answers your question.

[Water]

Wait a minute, if rich people earn higher income than poorer people, naturally they'd accumulate more wealth over time? What are you trying to rabble on about sir.


Just then you said "I do not have a problem with people making money, nor people growing incomes"

[the sean]

Wait a minute, if rich people earn higher income than poorer people, naturally they'd accumulate more wealth over time? What are you trying to rabble on about sir.

Just then you said "I do not have a problem with people making money, nor people growing incomes"

Yes of course people on higher incomes will acquire more wealth overtime. However, if income gains are made for the poor as well, then they too will be able to acquire wealth. I don't have a problem with unequal wealth distribution, it creates incentive. But I do have a problem with a tiny portion of society screwing over the majority; which, if the current trends continue, will eventually be the result.

And after saying "I do not have a problem with people making money, nor people growing incomes" I said, I do have a problem with the rich getting richer whilst the poor get poorer.

[Water]

do have a problem with the rich getting richer whilst the poor get poorer.


Might as well be a communist/socialist. This is why Man was made unequal. To differentiate the apes from the gorillas.

[JellyDonut]

Re-read what he said

[the sean]

do have a problem with the rich getting richer whilst the poor get poorer.


Might as well be a communist/socialist. This is why Man was made unequal. To differentiate the apes from the gorillas.

Haha jeez, I'm not sure whether I should take you seriously anymore. 

[tram]

If you had read my post correctly you would see I do not have a problem with people making money, nor people growing their incomes. I have a problem however with rich getting richer whilst the poor are getting poorer. YES, we do have it pretty good right now, it would be insane to suggest otherwise. But with that being said, you cannot doubt either that inequality in Australia is increasing. Both in an income/wealth measure (growing GINI coefficient) and also in a political representation measure.

Of the many messages coming out of the Occupy movements, the message the resonates perhaps most with me is corporate influence in politics. Particularly the fact the a couple of mining execs can effectively remove a Prime Minister from office just because they do not want to pay more tax. 

In response to "quantify, explain or define" inequality in Australia, here it is:
"The share of household net worth owned by the richest 20 per cent of Australian households has risen from 58.6 per cent in 2003-04 to 62.2 per cent in 2009-10."
AND
"According to recently released Australian Bureau of Statistics data, the share of household disposable income accruing to the richest 20 per cent of Australians has increased from 37.8 per cent in 1994-95 to 40.2 per cent in 2009-10, while that of each of the four lowest ''quintiles'' (fifths) has fallen over the same period."

In just the past 6 years income has increased by almost 3% for the top 20%,  and more worringly, wealth in the top 20% has increased by almost 4%. Doesn't this worry you? What if the trend continues like this and in 30 years time the richest 20% own 80% of the wealth? It is certainly something to be worried about.

Like I said, I don't know how to fix it. But I do know that it's something to worry about.

Granted there are small shifts in terms of income concentration, but again, this is just natural in any economy, if we started demanding massive changes everytime we saw a trend supported with a 'whole 5 years' worth of data that would just be ridiculous. We have phases on growth in certain areas, resources moves around the economy and some people get richer, some get poorer, that's completely normal....

Yes, i think we can all agree that the top 20% having 80% of the wealth is a bad thing, but that's one exceptionally large jump from where we are right now, you're extrapolating what's happening in the past 5 years and assuming the trend will continue for the next 30. What-iffing about every single possibility and bad thing that could happen is just being alarmist and not achieving anything.

I don't think that it is likely anyway, and not much of a problem regardless, again, there are plenty of checks in place to ensure that people have a certain minimum standard of living if they are working, and we don't exactly have an excessive unemployment rate. So what if some people are getting rich, as long as masses of people aren't starving on the streets and people aren't getting exploited, and i don't think there's particularly much chance of that. (having just read the new posts since i started typing this it seems you seem to agree with half the stuff in this paragraph anyway)

Also, where are you quoting from? (not doubting credibility, just interested to read more)