Do students need tutoring to succeed in the VCE?

[greenbeans]

our top students for my school didn't have tutoring
but then again they mightn't be the 'norm' again... i was blown away by how many people i found out actually had tutoring at my school!!
and we had a range of kiddos - from some wanting to do med to others being the amazing i will have the best of all worlds, brilliant funny massive social life popular sporty musicy etc

[John President]

Yes, you're right there is a culture of tutoring being the norm at my school.  What I found interesting was that starting from year nine even, a lot of our teachers actually encouraged students who were struggling to find private tutors as well as giving them extra help.  I know one of our maths teachers at school had a list of maths tutors that he would give out to anyone who wanted it. 

As for 'exceptionally gifted students' having little need to spend money on tutoring-- I don't know if I quite agree.  Again, this is probably the product of going to a school where tutors are the norm, but almost year after year, ever top student and incredibly smart student I've known or known about has had tutoring, or been to Dr. He, or North Shore etc.  I've also seen incredibly talented students in my class fall behind their peers in who probably werne't as talented, in SACs and tests, simply because they hadn't had tutoring.  It seems VCE is not and has not been for a long time, a level playing field. 

That said, I never really struggled, yet felt the need to have tutors in almost all my subjects, probably because of peer pressure LOL...in the end, we did a lot of extension, and I have to say that helped me a lot come exam time. 

Fuzzy - it would be really interesting to go back in time and see how you did without a tutor haha. I'm sure you still would have done amazingly well.

It's a relief to hear about tutored students outstripping more talented non-tutored students. If that didn't happen...that'd be a lot of money being wasted! Although I agree it can be beneficial, I still doubt that private tutoring is ESSENTIAL for VCE success, with all the study resources/skills sessions available out there.

Sidenote - I wish more students at my school wanted tutoring, I'd get more moneys lol. Problem is a whole lot of them just stay in Year 12 for the formal/schoolies!

[DlP]

At my school, the majority of students who got 99.95 had tutors.
Actually, the vast majority of students had tutors.


I think the fact that students with tutors are out-performing students without tutors is saying something about the education system, or maybe just schools. What if it's the teachers who aren't all great? I know a lot of mine weren't.
Granted, most of the tutoring centres I went to just taught the same things at a faster rate. The ones I chose in the end (I couldn't choose none, unfortunately) were the ones that taught outside the syllabus, especially for maths. I like to believe that the maths syllabus for the HSC is lacking in a lot of places.

[greenbeans]

DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.

[nacho]

I think the fact that students with tutors are out-performing students without tutors is saying something about the education system, or maybe just schools.

that's not true at all
i know heaps of people who went to tutors for years (in middle highschool) that were outperformed by far by people that never went to tutors
i also know heaps of people who did go to tutors and performed outstandingly, so it's not one way or the other

[burbs]

DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.

what the what

[Planck's constant]

And what exactly is the difference between teaching and tutoring, other than a difference in degree ?

1 teacher teaching 30 students 2 hours a week = Teaching
1 teacher teaching 1 student 10 hours a week = Tutoring

Of course the student under the second scenario will do better.
Those who argue against this self-evident fact, are either plain stupid or just like the sound of their own voice

[greenbeans]

DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.

what the what

some schools can brag about having fantastic students who are actually having to fork out for extra tuition as their teaching methodologies aren't up to scratch and then the school takes all the credit!

[Thu Thu Train]

DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.

what the what

some schools can brag about having fantastic students who are actually having to fork out for extra tuition as their teaching methodologies aren't up to scratch and then the school takes all the credit!

I don't think you quite understand the point of a tutor...

Edit:
200^th POST

[greenbeans]

i should hope so considering i am one

[nacho]

And what exactly is the difference between teaching and tutoring, other than a difference in degree ?

1 teacher teaching 30 students 2 hours a week = Teaching
1 teacher teaching 1 student 10 hours a week = Tutoring

Of course the student under the second scenario will do better.
Those who argue against this self-evident fact, are either plain stupid or just like the sound of their own voice

A) I'm not talking out aloud
B) For someone who dismisses any argument against their opinion as 'plain stupid' it is probably because you lack the intelligence to back up what you are saying.
Firstly, I do not know of anyone who has gotten 10 hours of tuition a week,
but even in your own scenario it doesn't matter. Working hard in class + at home make you just as capable as a student with 10 hrs + tutoring.
additionally people who get that much tutoring can also become complacent/lose motivation

[WhoTookMyUsername]

A fair portion of the top students don't have tutors. You don't need tutoring to succeed in VCE. 3/5 MHS 50s in Bio this year had no tutoring at all. Does it help? Depends on the person and the situation.

[Mariammm]

The problem here is that everyone is using anecdotal evidence so an agreement can never be reached ... So far nobody has denied that tutoring can achieve results but rather, whether this is necessary and i guess this depends on numerous factors - most of which have already been mentioned- such as the needs and the learning style of the student, the quality of teaching already available to the student, the talents and skills of the student in that particular subject and pushy parents - therefore a generalization cannot be made
I beg to differ agronaut... Student a may outdo student b due to differences in intellectual capacity and personal effort put in ... So i assume you are arguing that if the same student was put in both situations, they would achieve better with the latter - this my be the case, but sometimes when  you work to tear apart and understand a subject and consequently, your own learning technique it works out better than being spoonfed the knowledge by a tutor

[fuzzylogic]

DlP makes a good point- the teachers can get all the credit at these schools where a huge population of the students are getting private tuition.. so it's quite false advertising.

what the what

some schools can brag about having fantastic students who are actually having to fork out for extra tuition as their teaching methodologies aren't up to scratch and then the school takes all the credit!

People are probably going to disagree with me, but I don't think it's possible to do exceedingly well with just a tutor.  From my experience, teachers at school are like the plat de resistance, and tutors the side dishes: you can have an amazing meal without the side dishes, but if you do choose to have them, they can only enhance the experience (well almost).

I think where students do really well, even if a lot came from having tutors, normal teachers do deserve the credit-- they might not all be top class, but they do give feedback, mark students' work, help when necessary and hopefully inspire their students (and I think that's pretty important in students doing well).  I'm generalising here, and I know this isn't always the case, but they do the best they can for a 1:20-30 teaching ratio. 

In terms of the school taking credit-- why not?  Success isn't always just about the teacher, but a small yet significant part is about the atmosphere and environment of learning that the school creates.  And most of the high flying schools that take credit for their students' success even if most had tutors do have this sort of atmosphere. 

[Planck's constant]

Student a may outdo student b due to differences in intellectual capacity

You are comparing apples with bananas.

I am talking :

1) I am one of 30 students being taught in a classroom setting by Dr Wee for 2 hours a week
2) I am the LONE student being taught one-to-one by Dr Wee for 10 hours a week

2 > 1

Obvious



.