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November 06, 2025, 04:33:30 pm

Author Topic: Specialist's Specialist Thread  (Read 21235 times)  Share 

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Special At Specialist

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2012, 07:22:11 pm »
0
Hope I'm not hijacking the thread too much but what's the difference between differentiating functions and differentiating equations?

I wonder this too.
If I had an equation like:
e^y = 4x^2 - 8x and I want to find d(e^y) / dx, the answer would be:
d(e^y) / dx = 8x - 8
I understand that e^y is still a variable, not a constant, but would it be possible to differentiate with respect to a constant when the equation itself is a constant (eg. x = 5)?
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Mao

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2012, 01:10:51 am »
+2
Thanks Mao :) I have another question:

If you have the equation x = 5, how do you find d(5) / dx ?
Would the answer be 1, since you treat 5 as the function of x and you take the derivative with respect to x, or would it be 0, since there is no change in the value of 5?
The answer is undefined. X=5 is a vertical line. It's gradient would be +/- inifinity.

Nooooo I'm not asking for the gradient. The gradient would be dy/dx.
I'm asking for d(5) / dx.
If you look at it from an algebraic perspective, you have 5 = x, therefore d(5) / dx = 1. But I'm not sure if it works that way which is what I'm asking.
But thanks for trying anyway.

firstly, x=5 is not a function of x.
secondly, is equivalent to with , so your notation is incorrect.

Thirdly, only makes sense if is a function of , that is, . In this case, cannot be expressed as a function of , its differential is undefined.
An alternative approach is if we were to take (a straight line going through (5,0), then take the limit as (i.e. as the line becomes so steep it is totally vertical). The derivative is Alternatively the limit is also a valid interpretation. Since the two limits do not agree (and the fact that they're both infinities), the derivative is undefined.
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Mao

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2012, 01:13:04 am »
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Hope I'm not hijacking the thread too much but what's the difference between differentiating functions and differentiating equations?

I wonder this too.
If I had an equation like:
e^y = 4x^2 - 8x and I want to find d(e^y) / dx, the answer would be:
d(e^y) / dx = 8x - 8
I understand that e^y is still a variable, not a constant, but would it be possible to differentiate with respect to a constant when the equation itself is a constant (eg. x = 5)?

e^y = 4x^2 - 8x <-- e^y is a function of x.
x = 5 <-- not a function of x. (if this can be written as a function of x, then this implies the constant 5 varies linearly with x, yet the constant 5 doesn't vary with anything, contradiction.)
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2012, 02:31:21 pm »
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Thanks Mao, I think I understand now.

I have another question:
A tank initially contains 200 litres of water. A sugar solution of concentration 30 grams per litre is added to the tank at a rate of 10 litres per minute. The mixture is kept uniform by stirring whilst being immediately drawn out at a rate of 7 litres per minute. If the tank contains x grams of sugar after t minutes, set up (but do not solve) a differential equation for x.

The problem with this question is that the rate of water flowing out is different to the rate of water flowing in. I've never attempted a problem like this before. Please help!
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2012, 03:36:39 pm »
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I think I have the answer, but would someone please confirm it for me?

dV/dt = Input - Output
dV/dt = 10 - 7
dV/dt = 3
V = 3t + C
when t = 0, V = 200
200 = 3(0) + C
C = 200
V = 3t + 200
dx/dt = Input - Output
dx/dt = 10*30 - 7*(x / V)
dx/dt = 300 - 7x / V
dx/dt = 300 - 7x / (3t + 200)
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2012, 04:53:36 pm »
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Yep that looks good :)

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2012, 10:15:42 pm »
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Ugh this integration problem is really annoying me! It is question 9 from VCAA 2008 specialist mathematics exam 1:
The graph of y = arccos(x), x E [-1, 1] is shown below.



a) Find the area bounded by the graph shown above, the x-axis and the line with equation x = -1.
b) Find the exact volume of the solid of revolution formed if the graph shown above is rotated around the y-axis.

For part a, I guessed that the area would be pi, but that is just a guess and I can't show any working out for it.
For part b, I know this involves comparing it to a y = cos(x) graph, I'm just not sure how, since they look quite different.
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2012, 10:20:28 pm »
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a) you can use the area of rectangle then say it's symmetrical. So you would get pi.
b) isnt there a formula you learn for that? just plug the equation for y in? lol

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2012, 10:36:45 pm »
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Ugh this integration problem is really annoying me! It is question 9 from VCAA 2008 specialist mathematics exam 1:
The graph of y = arccos(x), x E [-1, 1] is shown below.

(Image removed from quote.)

a) Find the area bounded by the graph shown above, the x-axis and the line with equation x = -1.
b) Find the exact volume of the solid of revolution formed if the graph shown above is rotated around the y-axis.

For part a, I guessed that the area would be pi, but that is just a guess and I can't show any working out for it.
For part b, I know this involves comparing it to a y = cos(x) graph, I'm just not sure how, since they look quite different.
a) just intergrate along the y axis if you want to really show it.

Area from x = 0 to x = 1 is given by

Area from x = -1 to x = 0 is given by

Total area

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2012, 05:10:06 pm »
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Thanks for part a. I think I might have part b. Please tell me if this is right or wrong.

If y = arccos(x) then x = cos(x)
Thus x^2 = cos^2(y)
since cos(2y) = 2cos^2(y) - 1
then cos^2(y) = (1/2)*(cos(2y) + 1)
V = pi*definite integral from y = a to y = b of x^2 dy
V = pi*definite integral from pi to pi/2 of (1/2)*(cos(2y) + 1) dy
V = pi/4 [sin(2y) + 2x] from pi to pi/2
V = pi/4 (0 + 2pi + 1 - pi)
V = pi/4 (pi + 1)
V = (pi^2 + pi) / 4
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2012, 05:46:25 pm »
+1
Thanks for part a. I think I might have part b. Please tell me if this is right or wrong.

If then
Thus
since
then
All the above looks correct, you had the right idea for the integral too. (also latexified it, I find that a bit easier to read :P)



So we have x E [-1,1], so our bounds are y E [0, pi] (this can be just seen from the graph given, you made a small error here), written out anyway:
















« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 05:48:01 pm by laseredd »

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2012, 05:24:26 pm »
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What is the implied domain of the function y = arccos(sin(3x))?
I thought the answer was (-∞, ∞), but other people keep saying it's [-pi/6, pi/6].
Could someone please explain?
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2012, 06:42:20 pm »
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What is the implied domain of the function y = arccos(sin(3x))?
I thought the answer was (-∞, ∞), but other people keep saying it's [-pi/6, pi/6].
Could someone please explain?
I think you're right.

The domain of arccos(x) is [-1,1]
The range of sin(3x) is [-1,1]
The domain of sin(3x) is R.

So you could input any real number into the function, and still get a number out.

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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2012, 07:40:33 pm »
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Hmm... does an arccos graph have to be a one-one function? Because if it does, then I understand how people got x E [-pi/6, pi/6] as the answer. If not, then I think it is x E (-∞, ∞).
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Re: Specialist's Specialist Thread
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2012, 07:43:59 pm »
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Hmm... does an arccos graph have to be a one-one function? Because if it does, then I understand how people got x E [-pi/6, pi/6] as the answer. If not, then I think it is x E (-∞, ∞).
The domain of arccos is restricted to [-1,1] because it's a one-to-one function. What we have here is a composite function though, not just arccos by itself.