VCE is a flawed system.

[rife168]

One of my maths teachers told me that the increase in Spesh scaling is due to students getting to university for sci/engineering stuff having not done Specialist. Universities didn't like this so VCAA introduced the increase in scaling make specialist maths more appealing to students.

[abd123]

One of my maths teachers told me that the increase in Spesh scaling is due to students getting to university for sci/engineering stuff having not done Specialist. Universities didn't like this so VCAA introduced the increase in scaling make specialist maths more appealing to students.

+1, so true lol.

I'm different to that though.

I'm just one of those students that intends to wanting to study Mathematics at a higher level under physics and applied mathematics along with an Aerospace Engineering degree. Yeah, pretty much AeroEng/Sci @ monash.

It seems like all the kids that wants to do medicine does spesh, and the kids that wants to do engineering don't do spesh. I'm quite surprised, lol.

[greenbeans]

Apart from languages, the scaling works like this:

Take a subject, say Legal studies. 30 is the average mark. So what they do is they see what other subjects the students studying Legal studies are. They go 'oh that kid is doing pretty easy subjects, so to get a 30 in Legal studies, that will be worth less than 30, so let's drop it down to 28.' Conversely, if you score a 30 in Latin, it gets marked up to 47 because they realise that a 30 in Latin is much harder to attain, than say, a 30 in Further maths. I'm a bit fuzzy on the specifics, but pretty sure that's how it works. Languages is just, as previously mentioned, an incentive from the government so that we can boost our international affairs and be better global communicators. Apparently we're a pretty lazy multilingual country in comparison to the European giants and whatnot.

[shinny]

Apart from languages, the scaling works like this:

Take a subject, say Legal studies. 30 is the average mark. So what they do is they see what other subjects the students studying Legal studies are. They go 'oh that kid is doing pretty easy subjects, so to get a 30 in Legal studies, that will be worth less than 30, so let's drop it down to 28.' Conversely, if you score a 30 in Latin, it gets marked up to 47 because they realise that a 30 in Latin is much harder to attain, than say, a 30 in Further maths. I'm a bit fuzzy on the specifics, but pretty sure that's how it works. Languages is just, as previously mentioned, an incentive from the government so that we can boost our international affairs and be better global communicators. Apparently we're a pretty lazy multilingual country in comparison to the European giants and whatnot.

Basically scaling works by seeing how well students in a particular subject scored in their other subjects. It has nothing to do with difficulty, but inherently, a greater proportion of the 'smarter' students would be picking the more difficult subjects.

[totaled]

I personally don't like the system either,
there are many problems, such as how sacs play a role in a student's study score, and indeed for many other reasons D;
but there's not much we can do

[greenbeans]

If it has nothing to do with difficulty, then why have the system at all? You shouldn't reward students for doing a subject if it's predominantly "easy".

[golden]

I don't really like the scaling system that much either - but without the super scaling many people won't do specialist and then jump into further which would make it less fair for those who are only doing further. Or people won't want to do a language - something the state wants to promote. Other examples of course apply here.

With the super scaling people only choose subjects which scale more, which although may help your ATAR MAY NOT benefit your future career if you do not even base your future at all on it.

In late year 11 we were choosing our subjects and I was stuck with this predicament. Should I choose the language I actually finished in Year 11 and continue it in year 12 (which would give awesome scaling) or would I pick up a year 12 subject that I hadn't done the year 11 for AND it gave less scaling but would benefit me more in the future for my specific preferred career choice?

I chose the latter - it turned out to be my lowest score which was in my bottom 2 but guess what? Now when I do that subject in university and in the future I'm in some sense better equipped for it. Now when I undertake my exams for the subject I don't have to completely start from scratch to learn the VCE material + university material alongside my other exams.

Now I'm not saying languages are useless; for many people, either for personal reasons eg. cultural, interest, first language etc. or for career purposes it serves as a fantastic subject to complement the other subjects that they are taking. But what I am saying is that if it is only purely for scaling, then is it really a thing where you want a high ATAR above all else?

But the fundamental reason is the fallback - simply put, if people choose subjects which don't scale, then they risk getting a lower score or miss their target which gets them into University. So I'm not going to blame anyone who takes that path. Security is great.

Despite not completely liking the scaling system it is here to say. You may say VCE is a flawed system but any other changes  may make it more flawed.

[paulsterio]

Personally I like the scaling system. I think that it's fair enough that students are rewarded for doing a subject which is more competitive.

However, I believe that it is unfair that some subjects scale over 50, because that means that even if you are the best of the best in another subject you cannot attain that score. My opinion is to cap scaling at 50, that's the fairest

[chimpy400]

Personally I like the scaling system. I think that it's fair enough that students are rewarded for doing a subject which is more competitive.

However, I believe that it is unfair that some subjects scale over 50, because that means that even if you are the best of the best in another subject you cannot attain that score. My opinion is to cap scaling at 50, that's the fairest

But what incentive would there be to increase your raw score in spesh after getting a 39(?) as your scaled score will remain the same.

[paulsterio]

I'm not saying don't scale up. I'm saying don't scale beyond 50.

I see nothing wrong with a 39 scaling up to say a 45?


And no, I don't mean to have all scores above 39 to scale to 50, it'd have to be adjusted of course!

[chimpy400]

I'm not saying don't scale up. I'm saying don't scale beyond 50.

I see nothing wrong with a 39 scaling up to say a 45?


And no, I don't mean to have all scores above 39 to scale to 50, it'd have to be adjusted of course!

But if the scaling was lowered wouldn't that be counter-productive to the idea of

Universities didn't like this so VCAA introduced the increase in scaling make specialist maths more appealing to students.

[gibsonaxxxs]

i think its sad because there's really no incentive to get a, say, 50 when you can get a say 45 and scale up to pretty much 50 (for subjects like methods/whatever)
for example, in latin, 35->50 and 50->55. who's going to try sooo hard to get a 50 when it's only 5 points more?!

[Unknown_one]

The actual reason for the scaling was the declinng amount of students that do specialist mathematics. In each school, well in most there are less than 24 people doing it, which over the years has declined. The original amount was approximately 8000 kids, but last year, there were only 4000 kids doing it, a jump that has led VCAA to increase its scaling in order to coax individuals into doing it.
The VCE i am ambivalent on.
Doing specialist and further are two completely different subjects.
Further requires very little brain power, indeed it took me only a day and a bit in term of hours to complete the book, but for specialist it took more than 4-5 weeks, and even now, I haven't finished due to time limitations due to school.
In your opinion, a 45 in specialist is not equivalent to a 50 in further mathematics, that is preposterous.
The time and effort put in specialist mathematics is almost ten times that amount even more than the work load for further, even now in my further class, I know everything back to front, my teacher knows that I have done the book, so basically I do my specialist homework in that class, and yet I do not finish.

In addition, further is no longer scaled down a "lot", after last years debacle, methods was worst off of all the maths, losing 1 after its scaling, instead of a 45 from a 40, it was a 44 from a 40, something that I am disappointed about. But thats life, you cant say anything against the system, as you are part of it.

I would say F*** the system, but in my opinion, its heck of a lot easier than trying to get an education from the slums of india, or any other third world country, that has troubles even saving the lives of their children. It makes you think that we are pretty lucky, unless you otherwise would prefer to think that the VCE is an injust system, yet "forget that " there are all these children in the world in INJUST conditions.

Yet. So just shut up. Live with it.
Its not the end of the world, if your smart then your lucky, if you think your not liek me, then Try as hard as you can like me, forget what other people say, and just do your best, after all thats the best that you can do...

[monkeywantsabanana]

Scrap VCE and everyone does IB instead?

[Starlight]

Scrap VCE and everyone does IB instead?

lol no because they choose the subject fields you do...