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brightsky

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2012, 12:22:08 pm »
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When carrying out calculations in chemistry, do you retain as many decimal places as you can, and express your answer with the correct number of sig figs/dps at the end, or do you work with figures expressed with the correct number of sig figs/dps every step of the way?

And also, why is 250 mL converted to 0.250 L instead of 0.25 L?
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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2012, 12:54:40 pm »
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Carry it to the end. :)

Not sure, I thought it'd be 0.25L since 250mL is technically 2.5 x 10^2 and thus 2 sig figs. hmm.
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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #47 on: December 30, 2012, 01:09:30 pm »
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And also, why is 250 mL converted to 0.250 L instead of 0.25 L?
250 ml is 3 sig figures
0.250 L is 3 sig figures, while 0.25 L is only 2 s.f's
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brightsky

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #48 on: December 30, 2012, 01:48:43 pm »
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Hmm, but why would 250 mL be 3 sf, unless this is an exception to the rule?
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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #49 on: December 30, 2012, 03:03:17 pm »
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And also, why is 250 mL converted to 0.250 L instead of 0.25 L?

This kind of stuff is really ambiguous. Don't worry about it.
If the question doesn't make it clear-cut, there's no reason they would be strict about the answer
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brightsky

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #50 on: December 31, 2012, 04:49:43 pm »
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Okay, thanks guys!

Also, why is it necessary to have a monochromator in a spectrophotometer? What purpose does it serve? I know it is used to select radiation of particular wavelength, but why is it necessary to do so? For example, in IR spectroscopy, surely you can just pass infrared radiation of all kinds of wavelengths through a sample cell and then measure the percentage transmittance. Why do you need a monochromator?

Also, what purpose is served by chopping the beam of light/radiation? How is this even achieved?

Thanks!
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thushan

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #51 on: December 31, 2012, 05:28:06 pm »
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Okay, thanks guys!

Also, why is it necessary to have a monochromator in a spectrophotometer? What purpose does it serve? I know it is used to select radiation of particular wavelength, but why is it necessary to do so? For example, in IR spectroscopy, surely you can just pass infrared radiation of all kinds of wavelengths through a sample cell and then measure the percentage transmittance. Why do you need a monochromator?

Also, what purpose is served by chopping the beam of light/radiation? How is this even achieved?

Thanks!

You need to determine the percentage transmittance at EACH wavelength. If you shoot all sorts of wavelengths at the same time, you can't differentiate which wavelengths of light are being absorbed.

Oh and btw - just so you know, you do not need to know this for the exam - the study design specifically excluded this. But learn it if you're interested :)
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brightsky

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #52 on: December 31, 2012, 05:57:15 pm »
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You need to determine the percentage transmittance at EACH wavelength. If you shoot all sorts of wavelengths at the same time, you can't differentiate which wavelengths of light are being absorbed.

Oh and btw - just so you know, you do not need to know this for the exam - the study design specifically excluded this. But learn it if you're interested :)

Ahh okay thanks thush (you keep changing your name! haha).

So does that mean you need to perform the test multiple times, shooting different wavelengths at the sample each time? How do you obtain a continuous graph then? And also the diagram depicting the IR spectrophotometer has the monochromator at the end after radiation has been shot through the sample and reference cells. Why is that?

And yeah, I just wanted to get a gist of what the actual procedure is for each technique.

Sorry if these questions appear a little stupid! :p
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thushan

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2012, 08:04:18 pm »
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And yeah, you shoot different wavelengths. Not sure as to how to physically do it, I imagine you can turn a knob to select a wavelength.
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Mao

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2013, 12:49:17 pm »
+4
Beam chopping can be achieved by placing something like this in the beam-path:

The red dot is the cross section of the beam. As you can see, as the blade rotates, the beam is switched on and off.

The reason we chop is to distinguish background and beam. This is especially useful for atomic absorption spectroscopy, since the fire has to be in open air for safety reasons, and thus we cannot perform the experiment in complete isolated darkness. We must therefore measure the ambient background and subtract that away from our measurement.

In other types of experiments (e.g. IR, UV-Vis), we generally take one background on a blank sample, and use that for a whole series of measurements (i.e. we only do background once). In AAS however, since we are open to the surrounding environment, the background can change over time (e.g. the sun goes behind a cloud, and the room gets slightly darker). So we need to continuously measure the background, and this is why we need to chop the beam. Each measurement uses its own background.

Re: obtaining a spectrum. The most popular method is via "Fourier Transform" spectroscopy. Fourier Transform is a mathematical method that allows you to work magic with waves. We can fire one single pulse that contains all wavelengths, and via magic, work out the absorption at each individual wavelength. Of course, this is too advanced for VCE.

Older and/or simpler instruments use a 'scanning' method to obtain the spectrum. That means you can hit a button on the instrument to automatically make thousands of measurements at different wavelengths to give you a spectrum.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 12:57:48 pm by Mao »
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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2013, 12:53:50 pm »
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And also the diagram depicting the IR spectrophotometer has the monochromator at the end after radiation has been shot through the sample and reference cells. Why is that?
You generally want one single wavelength going into the detector, since most detectors can only give you an intensity. That is, if light of two different wavelengths hit the detector, the detector would think it is the same wavelength, and add their intensities.

If we shoot a single wavelength into a sample, various sorts of scattering takes place (the mechanism of scattering is not important right now), and you get a range of wavelengths coming out. Therefore, the best way to obtain a clean beam to the detector is to place the monochromator last.
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brightsky

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2013, 12:02:47 pm »
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Thanks guys!

1. Is there a special reason why chemists sometimes write one of the reactants above the arrow?
2. Can an alcohol undergo a substitution reaction?
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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2013, 12:06:23 pm »
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Considering it's you, I'm probably misinterpreting your first question, but are you referring to catalysts? They're placed above the arrow in a written chemical reaction because they are not chemically involved in the make-up of the products - they just lower the amount of energy required for the reaction to take place (usually this occurs with the reaction taking place on the surface of the catalyst).

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brightsky

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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2013, 12:24:19 pm »
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Considering it's you, I'm probably misinterpreting your first question, but are you referring to catalysts? They're placed above the arrow in a written chemical reaction because they are not chemically involved in the make-up of the products - they just lower the amount of energy required for the reaction to take place (usually this occurs with the reaction taking place on the surface of the catalyst).

inb4 I've made a fool of myself. :|

Thanks Stick! Nah, I've seen chemical equations wherein a reactant that actually takes place in the reaction is written above the arrow. For example, in the chemical equation describing the reaction between ethene and hydrogen chloride to produce chloroethane, the hydrogen chloride (an active participant in the reaction) is sometimes written above the arrow for reasons which I am trying to find out. I'm starting to think it's simply for compactness of expression.
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Re: brightsky's Chem Thread
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2013, 12:25:31 pm »
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Hmm... is hydrogen chloride a solvent in this reaction, as well as a reactant?
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