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Author Topic: Double Bond Equivalent Formula  (Read 19250 times)  Share 

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Lasercookie

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Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« on: May 21, 2012, 07:24:47 pm »
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I've been doing some thinking about this double bond equivalent formula that's introduced in Thushan's book as a handy trick to know, I'd just like some clarification on it in order to get my head around it.

So



So, it's presented in the AN Chem book as:





The difference between the two being that the F, Cl, Br, I and N were not needed in the second case


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bond_equivalent

The Wikipedia page states that for the particular case of "molecules containing only carbon, hydrogen, monovalent halogens, nitrogen, and oxygen" as:

Which is just exactly the same formula, just not simplified (I find this form a bit easier to remember, personal preference).

It also has a more general formula, based on valency. Just looking at it, I think I can see how we could derive our more specific case from this general formula.

I don't really prefer using this formula for most questions, since there's usually an alternative way of working it out (often longer, but I'm more comfortable doing it that way), but I do see how it's useful for double checking. I saw that it was particularly handy in that IR question, where you had to determine the structure of a given CxHyOz - with the formula allowing you to see that there would exist so many double bonds.

I have a few questions though, the first question is what concerns me most. The third and fifth question is also something that I'm concerned about.

1. Where did this formula come from? Who came up with it? How was it derived? How was it proved?
I can see that if we just had alkanes (saturated hydrocarbons):

We know that there's no saturation, no halogens, nitrogens, so:













Which is equivalent to the general formula for alkanes:

I guess just looking at saturated hydrocarbons, we already knew that
- which would be the maximum number possible, since saturation would only decrease this number due to the less number of bonds that can be formed.

Less number of bonds would be why valency comes up as a factor in the general case given in the Wikipedia page.

This next bit is a bit ill-explained, but I'll have a shot at trying to get my thoughts into coherent words anyway:

Is that also why atoms such as Nitrogen and Halogens are a concern  - nitrogen can form 3 bonds and halogens can form one bond. The DBE is relating the affect of saturation to numbers of atoms - where saturation affects the number of hydrogen (that wiki page also seems to place emphasis on hydrogen, which got me thinking about it from that perspective).

Nitrogen is able to form 3 bonds, which means that for every extra nitrogen, we can fit in more hydrogens. Since halogens form one bond, the number of them that we fit into a structure would also decrease with saturation (thinking in terms of hydrogens, placing a halogen would mean that we couldn't put a hydrogen in because of that).

Why doesn't oxygen have an affect on the number of hydrogens though? It can form 2 bonds, so even if we stick in an 'o' into an atom (e.g. look at an alkane and then it's corresponding alkanol), there's still a place for the hydrogen.

I have no clue, not even fairly vague ideas like above, about the in the formula though.

2. I'm assuming that only natural numbers will be input and output of the formula.

3. How should we use this formula on our exams?
Is this okay to use on VCAA exams? Should we restrict it's usage for just confirming our answers in our heads? One of the sample answers in book (AOS2, Test 2, Q2d) uses the phrase "as depicted by the formula".

4. Interpreting the output of the formula
Given that:

implies no double bonds, no rings.

implies either 1 double bond or 1 ring

implies either 2 double bonds, 2 rings or 1 double bond and 1 ring.
and so on.

So this formula isn't too useful unless you have extra information that would allow you to eliminate the chance of rings - meaning that the number will be just the number of double bonds.

If we were given the molecular formula of a fatty acid, and asked to calculate how many double bonds it has, would this formula be a safe bet? Considering that VCAA will keep to the VCE course and that we were sure that the fatty acid didn't contain any rings, it should be mostly good to use?

e.g.
Arachidonic Acid:

It's fairly clear that this is a unsaturated fatty acid, it doesn't fit our general formula for saturated fatty acids:




5 double bonds, which is correct:



5. Limitations/Things to watch out for
I guess this relates to the previous question, where we'd have to watch out for rings etc. That Wikipedia link includes triple bonds (which contributes a value of '2' to the DBE), which I assume we don't really need to worry about.

Seeing that this formula isn't on the VCE course, it's not something that we'd be expected to use, so there's probably not too much to worry about, since there won't be any questions where we'd be having to rely on it - but it does seem handy for extra double checking and confirming that you haven't made any mistakes. I guess I just want to know if there should be anything to worry about when using it though.

Mao

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 05:03:50 pm »
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I didn't manage to get through all that, quite a wall of text. Here's a simplified derivation:

Saturated hydrocarbon:

Degree of unsaturation (= Double bond equivalence ): 1 per 2 H deviation from saturated case.

For simple hydrocarbons , we expect hydrogens for the saturated case
The difference in number of H is
The degree of unsaturation is thus half that,

Let's now consider more complex hydrocarbons, such as ones which include halogens. Note that halogens simply substitute a H, so we can count them as a hydrogen.


Let's now consider oxygen. If we substitute an oxygen in place of a H (while keeping the molecule saturated), we will have to add an OH group, which doesn't change the overall number of hydrogen. So Oxygen doesn't come into the DBE formula.

Let's now consider nitrogen. If we substitute an N in place of a H while keeping the molecule saturated, we will have to add -NH2, which increases the number of H atoms by 1.

which is the full DBE formula.



I don't like the DBE formula
The DBE formula has a rather lengthy derivation, and doesn't make sense just as is. I do not like having to remember more formula just because.

What if I don't want to memorise the formula?
There's this nifty trick, which says any isomers of a molecule will have the same degree of unsaturation. If you are maths inclined, you can represent a molecule with a network map, and prove this using the pigeon hole principle. Anyhow, the crucial point here is, the simplest linear molecule will have the same DBE as a complex molecule.

What you should do is, given some chemical formula, draw the simplest linear saturated molecule, then remove pairs of hydrogens until you get the same number of H. I think this is a much simpler and intuitive approach than having to memorise yet another rather abstract DBE formula.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 05:26:21 pm by Mao »
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Lasercookie

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 05:30:46 pm »
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Thanks for that explanation Mao.

I didn't manage to get through all that, quite a wall of text.
Yeah, my bad, I didn't realise how long the post was until after I posted it.

charmanderp

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 06:35:24 pm »
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It's worked for me every time so far! It works perfectly when a question asks to find the number of double bonds in a fatty acid or triglyceride, or whether it's saturated/monounsaturated/polyunsaturated (so long as you account for the C=O double bond).
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ecvkcuf

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 06:59:21 pm »
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Can't you just tell from the fatty acid molecular formula whether or not it's saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsatured, that's what my teacher has taught me.

Like for example.. if there is a double number of H for every O then it's more likely to be saturated.. my textbook has not got this formula.

charmanderp

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 07:12:12 pm »
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C(2n)H(2n+1) = Saturated
C(2n)H(2n-1) = Monounsaturated
C(2n)H(2n-x) = Polyunsaturated, where x is an odd integer greater than 1.

That's not including the COOH part of a fatty acid.
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ecvkcuf

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 07:39:48 pm »
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Yer that's what my teacher told me.. cheers!

Mao

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Re: Double Bond Equivalent Formula
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 01:12:59 am »
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Can't you just tell from the fatty acid molecular formula whether or not it's saturated, monounsaturated, and polyunsatured, that's what my teacher has taught me.

Like for example.. if there is a double number of H for every O then it's more likely to be saturated.. my textbook has not got this formula.

Exactly, the DBE formula is just a formalization, which is why it's not useful in my opinion. But anyhow, some people prefer to memorise formulas, some people prefer to work things out on the spot. Each to their own.
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