Decriminalising Drugs

[Genericname2365]

One of the main things about the illegality of drugs that concerns me is in places like Thailand where the prisons are overflowing with prosecuted drug users (well, presumably traffickers as well but that's not as relevant to my point). One must wonder what is really being accomplished, and whether it is actually benefiting the society? Of course it's likely many of them would be in jail for using far worse drugs than the ones Special At Specialist is advocating be kept legal in Australia, but the question over the effectiveness of these laws is certainly raised in places like those countries as well. Admittedly I realised as I was posting there are vast differences between the socio-economic levels and so on of those types of countries and Australia, so this is another issue with dubious relevance to what is being asked. 
As for Australia, I don't really know enough about the merits/limitations of either approach to be able to comment. However I can't see any major law changes occurring at all in the next several years. I don't think either major party is willing to consider taking this step.

[nubs]

I say legalise marijuana and keep everything else illegal.
I know that weed has a lot of negative connotations, but marijuana actually isn't as bad as the government pretends it is. Cannabis is less addictive and less harmful than tobacco, and tobacco is legal, so why isn't marijuana?

Ecstacy, 'shrooms', mescaline, GHB, LSD, DMT and many, many other drugs are safer than marijuana, so why legalise marijuana and not the others?

[JellyDonut]

is alcohol a soft or hard drug?

[HighLatency]

I say legalise marijuana and keep everything else illegal.
I know that weed has a lot of negative connotations, but marijuana actually isn't as bad as the government pretends it is. Cannabis is less addictive and less harmful than tobacco, and tobacco is legal, so why isn't marijuana?

Ecstacy, 'shrooms', mescaline, GHB, LSD, DMT and many, many other drugs are safer than marijuana, so why legalise marijuana and not the others?

For one, the drugs you listed can cause hallucinations...

The only reason why countries still allow tobacco is because there are large corporations that surround it and they would get pretty p1ssed if you tried to illegalise it, whereas on the other hand illicit drugs like the ones you mentioned are harvested/made by people the government doesn't really give a shit about and could probably get arrested without any harm to them or the economy.

[thushan]

Hmm. My two cents here.

"As adults, we should be able to do what we wish as long as we do not harm anyone else in the process."

My sentiments exactly.

I'm in favour of legalising drugs in general, hard or soft. Either way, we will have people taking drugs and harming themselves and possible others. As for the argument of "legalising drugs means that drug use will increase," I firstly don't think it will increase by much - remember that they would have JUST been legalised, and most likely with extremely strong warnings against it (similar to smoking ads) - and secondly, even if drug use increases, legalising drugs will allow management of drug misuse without the mess of the judiciary. In other words, I'm a "harm minimisation" guy.

[mark_alec]

'...the irrationality of our present drug policy, recounting a call he had with then-Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, who was furious that he'd compared horseback riding harms to the harms from taking MDMA. Smith says that "you can't compare harms from a legal activity with an illegal activity." When Nutt asks why not, she says, "because one is illegal." When he asks why it is illegal, she says, "Because it is harmful." So he asks, "Don't we need to compare harms to determine if it should be illegal?" And Smith reiterates, "you can't compare harms from a legal activity with an illegal activity..."'

http://boingboing.net/2012/06/20/drugs-without-the-hot-air.html

[paulsterio]

Drugs are a very lucrative back yard business, I think that if we legalise drugs and move them to proper supply chains and remove the back yard growers, we would be able to eliminate a large problem.

But I still think that currently, having all drugs illegal isn't such a bad thing. For example, drugs are nowhere near "readily available" and to be honest, if you wanted to source stuff such as heroin, it won't be easy. Like personally, I would probably be able to get my hands on shrooms, weed and that sort of stuff, but getting your hands on heroin and other hard drugs are already a difficult task, and I think in some ways that's a good thing.

Essentially the thing with illegal drugs is that they are kept behind the limelight so that only those who really go out seeking it will essentially come across it whilst the majority of society never really have to deal with it or come across it per se.

[Truck]

Drugs are a very lucrative back yard business, I think that if we legalise drugs and move them to proper supply chains and remove the back yard growers, we would be able to eliminate a large problem.

But I still think that currently, having all drugs illegal isn't such a bad thing. For example, drugs are nowhere near "readily available" and to be honest, if you wanted to source stuff such as heroin, it won't be easy. Like personally, I would probably be able to get my hands on shrooms, weed and that sort of stuff, but getting your hands on heroin and other hard drugs are already a difficult task, and I think in some ways that's a good thing.

Essentially the thing with illegal drugs is that they are kept behind the limelight so that only those who really go out seeking it will essentially come across it whilst the majority of society never really have to deal with it or come across it per se.

Yeah it's probably pretty true with Hard Drugs.

But theoretically, by keeping it illegal we're mainly trying to protect those people who'd go out seeking it, as I don't see what evidence there is that making it legal would make people otherwise uninterested in heroin start it up. Therefore, shouldn't we be trying a different approach to best prevent the people who'd seek out hard drugs, take it up in the first place?

[ellaa81]

If we were to decriminalise it, I definitely think there should still be restrictions like those for tobacco smoking - i.e.: U18s can't buy it or something on the lines.

[Soul_Khan]

^ Yer of course there will be.

Marijuana Man approves decriminalising drugs. I'm glad his on our side folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JPli28t-5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOcHrnlSopc&list=UUAs_dJy7goBMRh2QmC2UVwA&index=3&feature=plcp

[Bhootnike]

Tough topic.. lol.
personally i think it shouldn't be, but society isn't me so .. blah :p

If it does become legalised, and available in shops.. like tobacco, will that improve our economy ?
there'll probably be a big influx of migrants firstly, and also the production of it, the distribution and stuff..
can't export it so trade outside aust. will be non-existent.
so maybe it could help the economy if ppl from other countries came down under for a 'getting high' holiday. might help tourism a bit... :p

but then the social people will say, 'what happened to the morals and ethics of society ', or along the lines of that.

healthwise, will it cause more people to become sick/mentally unstable/more violence ?
sure you've all heard about the guy who got stoned and ate someones face? ;\  one off case, yeah, but still ..
other health issues e.g. cancer from the smoking? australia already has a huge cancer rate due to cig. smoking.
im assuming smoking weed has the same effect on the lungs here haha

socially, what bout problems with addiction. rift might occur in families or b/w couples cause one is addicted to it. and like with things such as booze or cigarettes, maybe it'll mean that even without much money, the addicts will waste money  getting drugs. you know, these types of things.

having said that. alcohol and tobacco sort of are the same as drugs then. both can cause addiction, rifts, cancer etc.
also things like drink driving, - not that different from drug-driving !
so why is booze allowed, but no drugs.., there has to be something else.
i can't think of it atm, but maybe its the whole fear of having ANOTHER harmful substance that people can use. there aleady drinks, tobacco, and then theres the potential of drugs.... lol

[Starlight]

sure you've all heard about the guy who got stoned and ate someones face? ;\

I've heard a few stories like this too. Personally, I don't think drugs e.g. marijuana should be legalised, too many potential problems.

[Truck]

Tough topic.. lol.
personally i think it shouldn't be, but society isn't me so .. blah :p

If it does become legalised, and available in shops.. like tobacco, will that improve our economy ?
there'll probably be a big influx of migrants firstly, and also the production of it, the distribution and stuff..
can't export it so trade outside aust. will be non-existent.
so maybe it could help the economy if ppl from other countries came down under for a 'getting high' holiday. might help tourism a bit... :p

Migrants? Not sure how you're linking legalizing drugs to increased migration, it'll be beneficial for the economy because the hundreds of million dollars which go towards perpetuating the "War on Drugs" which include prison costs, police costs, lost revenue on potential tax gains on drugs would cease to exist. From a purely financial sense (i.e. if you ignored ethics), it makes sense to legalize at the very least, Marijuana.

but then the social people will say, 'what happened to the morals and ethics of society ', or along the lines of that.

Those so called 'social people' say that about gay-marriage as well, if you can't justify that kind of assertion then it's meaningless.

healthwise, will it cause more people to become sick/mentally unstable/more violence ?
sure you've all heard about the guy who got stoned and ate someones face? ;\  one off case, yeah, but still ..
other health issues e.g. cancer from the smoking? australia already has a huge cancer rate due to cig. smoking.
im assuming smoking weed has the same effect on the lungs here haha

Your assumption is pretty much baseless. There hasn't been nearly enough substantial research on Marijuana, but what has been gleaned is that it doesn't have nearly as many detrimental health affects as cigarette smoking.

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=12&gs_id=2g&xhr=t&q=marijuana+lung+cancer&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=marijuana+lu&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=414f5d73d80244c1&biw=1680&bih=916

This is a quick google search on 'Marijuana Lung Cancer', as you can see, there's a lot of conflicting scientific documents but the main thing you should gather from this is that nothing you've said is based on any actual facts, it's pretty much just fear mongering. Based on the limited research out there, I don't think you can say that marijuana increases rates of lung cancer or anything of that nature.

socially, what bout problems with addiction. rift might occur in families or b/w couples cause one is addicted to it. and like with things such as booze or cigarettes, maybe it'll mean that even without much money, the addicts will waste money  getting drugs. you know, these types of things.

having said that. alcohol and tobacco sort of are the same as drugs then. both can cause addiction, rifts, cancer etc.
also things like drink driving, - not that different from drug-driving !
so why is booze allowed, but no drugs.., there has to be something else.
i can't think of it atm, but maybe its the whole fear of having ANOTHER harmful substance that people can use. there aleady drinks, tobacco, and then theres the potential of drugs.... lol

Marijuana as an example here, is psychologically addictive but not physically addictive. What I mean by that is if you smoke a lot of it, you might love the feeling/require more to reach the same level of high and get addicted in the sense you smoke because you crave that feeling, but if you were to suddenly stop ingesting it you wouldn't have crazy withdrawals like you would with a harder drug. That said, many people would still classify that as addictive - although I think it's an important distinction to make.

All those issues however are legitimate, and raise different questions. What about people who in the end are going to use it responsibly, and not get addicted to the drug, i.e. like a person drinking a glass of wine with their dinner... we're in effect saying because some people will abuse it, nobody can use it? Not to mention that Marijuana could really be considered less harmful then alcohol and cigarettes - you don't see marijuana-related violence, abuse of alcohol and cigerettes is known to produce a variety of detrimental health effects whereas abuse of marijuana is seemingly less bad for you (although obviously still bad for you)... I guess what we need to be asking ourselves, from a societal point of view, is do we have a justification for keeping marijuana illegal and if so, can (and should) that same justification be applied to other currently legal drugs?

[Bhootnike]

Tough topic.. lol.
personally i think it shouldn't be, but society isn't me so .. blah :p

If it does become legalised, and available in shops.. like tobacco, will that improve our economy ?
there'll probably be a big influx of migrants firstly, and also the production of it, the distribution and stuff..
can't export it so trade outside aust. will be non-existent.
so maybe it could help the economy if ppl from other countries came down under for a 'getting high' holiday. might help tourism a bit... :p

Migrants? Not sure how you're linking legalizing drugs to increased migration, it'll be beneficial for the economy because the hundreds of million dollars which go towards perpetuating the "War on Drugs" which include prison costs, police costs, lost revenue on potential tax gains on drugs would cease to exist. From a purely financial sense (i.e. if you ignored ethics), it makes sense to legalize at the very least, Marijuana.

Well its obvious isnt it ? If e.g weed is legalised here, people will come here, either migrating , or for tourism - the latter probably being more prevalent.
tourism = beneficial for economy
In Goa (place in India) there are heaps of westerners there, and most are there for the drugs. the fact that their dirt cheap and easy to get, plus the city is beautiful and a popular holiday making destination.
just to prove that it may encourage more ppl to come here ^ !

Those so called 'social people' say that about gay-marriage as well, if you can't justify that kind of assertion then it's meaningless.

1. Aussie culture  -- wouldn't say drugs have ever been apart of our aussie identity. - vs beer, vegemite :p
2. Welfare of the citizens
3. What is australia promoting here?Something banned all over the world for many reasons, is legalised in Australia. why? is this what gillard meant by ' moving forward' ? What about things such as health, education for our future children, sports? why spend money on legalising drugs - factory costs, etc etc, when we can spend it elewhere?
4. religious groups
.. all i can think of

Your assumption is pretty much baseless. There hasn't been nearly enough substantial research on Marijuana, but what has been gleaned is that it doesn't have nearly as many detrimental health affects as cigarette smoking.
This is a quick google search on 'Marijuana Lung Cancer', as you can see, there's a lot of conflicting scientific documents but themain thing you should gather from this is that nothing you've said is based on any actual facts, it's pretty much just fear mongering. Based on the limited research out there, I don't think you can say that marijuana increases rates of lung cancer or anything of that nature.

if we don't know its potential danger, are you ready to chip it out to people ? that's like me saying, oh, so.. this missile i made is not as bad as dynamite or tnt, and no one knows how bad this missile can damage a building, but lets fire it anyways :D:D
what i mean to say is that, regardless, its a risk.
btw, my assumption was that if smoked, it will cause similar cardiovascular and respiratory effects. but yeah not 100 percent sure on that one.

also, what about education about drugs? overdosing and stuff.. ? lots of people die around the world cause of lack of knowledge about drug use.

Marijuana as an example here, is psychologically addictive but not physically addictive. What I mean by that is if you smoke a lot of it, you might love the feeling/require more to reach the same level of high and get addicted in the sense you smoke because you crave that feeling, but if you were to suddenly stop ingesting it you wouldn't have crazy withdrawals like you would with a harder drug. That said, many people would still classify that as addictive - although I think it's an important distinction to make.

indeed. but ofc hardcore drugs arent the same.
Of all illicit, id favour weed to be legalised. lot of the bad guys earn their money through weed! and also, if ingested, i.e. drank, or cookies/brownie style, its safer than smoking it , since it eliminates risks of cardiovascular or respiratory problems. plus i think most ppl do weed over other drugs in aus anyway.

All those issues however are legitimate, and raise different questions. What about people who in the end are going to use it responsibly, and not get addicted to the drug, i.e. like a person drinking a glass of wine with their dinner... we're in effect saying because some people will abuse it, nobody can use it? Not to mention that Marijuana could really be considered less harmful then alcohol and cigarettes - you don't see marijuana-related violence, abuse of alcohol and cigerettes is known to produce a variety of detrimental health effects whereas abuse of marijuana is seemingly less bad for you (although obviously still bad for you)... I guess what we need to be asking ourselves, from a societal point of view, is do we have a justification for keeping marijuana illegal and if so, can (and should) that same justification be applied to other currently legal drugs?

true. but yeah, what about those will abuse it ? is it worth the risk ?
;
btw, this guy only had weed in his system according to recent analysis. ignore the bathsalts thing
http://www.manolith.com/2012/05/29/guy-eats-other-guys-face-for-real/
ENJOY.

...


haha, yeah that shit is just farked up. if that is what a drug can do, and if it gets legalised here, im gonna move to the ISS :p
 

[mark_alec]

Something banned all over the world for many reasons, is legalised in Australia. why? is this what gillard meant by ' moving forward' ? What about things such as health, education for our future children, sports? why spend money on legalising drugs - factory costs, etc etc, when we can spend it elewhere?

I think you will find that the reasons for banning drugs were never based on minimising harm or costs to society.

Advocates for decriminalising drugs will argue that you will *make* money as: 1) you tax production and sales 2) you ensure a high quality product so people don't suffer from the harmful effects of adulterants (i.e. lower health costs) 3) you no longer need to police or imprison for drug related charges.